US FAR 61.113 Private Pilots Towing gliders for compensation.

Vaughn:

I agree that tow pilots must have a much higher degree of
competency and experience and 61.69 established the higher
standards for knowledge, experience and training that the
FAA thought necessary for glider towing.

The FAA thought it important that tow pilots know about
speeds, safety matters , and signals etc, that are pertinent
to glider operations, none of which subjects are covered in
the training for commercial pilots. That's one of the
primary reasons that a tow pilot must get ground and flight
training by a CFIG and make at least three tows while
accompanied by a tow "qualified" pilot.

The FAA's assumption is that certificated pilots can fly
airplanes but don't know much about glider ops without
additional training. Hence it requires the the training and
experience that is unique to gliders towing ops. Have you
ever been towed by a thoroughly competent commercial pilot
who strictly maintains the runway heading in a stiff
crosswind instead of drifting downwind (when field
conditions permit) because he is unaware of the
complications for a glider in the event of a low rope break
? Or been dragged down wind too far because the pilot is not
as sensitive to those conditions as we glider pilots?

The FAA further requires a unique towing currency provision
for tow pilots. A tow pilot towing every day for a year must
make at least three flights while accompanied by "qualified"
tow pilot or make three flights as PIC in a glider to remain
current for the coming year. Flying commercially every day
as a charter pilot or shooting instrument approaches does
not solve the legal or practical requirements of maintaining
tow pilot currency.

All of these requirements reflect the fact that the FAA
appropriately recognized that towing required a unique set
of skills and experience.



Vaughn wrote:
"Pete Brown" wrote in message ...

Safety was not the issue.


Huh? Commercial pilots are tested to a higher standard and must have more
flight hours to even qualify to be tested. I agree that pilot competency is a
very individual thing, but having passed the requirements for the Commercial
does establish a certain minimum.

Vaughn



--

Peter D. Brown
http://home.gci.net/~pdb/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akmtnsoaring/

"Pete Brown" wrote in message
...
Vaughn:

I agree that tow pilots must have a much higher degree of
competency and experience

Good!

and 61.69 established the higher
standards for knowledge, experience and training that the
FAA thought necessary for glider towing.

Then the FAA didn't think much (more below).

The FAA thought it important that tow pilots know about
speeds, safety matters , and signals etc, that are pertinent
to glider operations, none of which subjects are covered in
the training for commercial pilots. That's one of the
primary reasons that a tow pilot must get ground and flight
training by a CFIG and make at least three tows while
accompanied by a tow "qualified" pilot.

Three tows ain't much!

The FAA's assumption is that certificated pilots can fly
airplanes but don't know much about glider ops without
additional training. Hence it requires the the training and
experience that is unique to gliders towing ops. Have you
ever been towed by a thoroughly competent commercial pilot
who strictly maintains the runway heading in a stiff
crosswind instead of drifting downwind (when field
conditions permit) because he is unaware of the
complications for a glider in the event of a low rope break
? Or been dragged down wind too far because the pilot is not
as sensitive to those conditions as we glider pilots?

Damn right I have!

The FAA further requires a unique towing currency provision
for tow pilots. A tow pilot towing every day for a year must
make at least three flights while accompanied by "qualified"
tow pilot or make three flights as PIC in a glider to remain
current for the coming year.

Again, not much

Flying commercially every day
as a charter pilot or shooting instrument approaches does
not solve the legal or practical requirements of maintaining
tow pilot currency.

Nor does shooting touch & goes or taking $100.00 hamburger flights in your
typical Cezzna.

All of these requirements reflect the fact that the FAA
appropriately recognized that towing required a unique set
of skills and experience.

The reality is that it takes far more than three tows to produce a
competent tow pilot. 61.69 provides a bare minimum of training. I would not
think of sending one of my solo students up behind a new tow pilot (Private,
Commercial, ATP, whatever) who had just shown up at the field and barely
complied with 61.69. Would you?

Actually; I have virtually no disagreement with what you have written
above, and agree that any given Private pilot might easily be a better tow pilot
than any given Commercial. That said, the reality is that I would rather have
an unknown Commercial pilot on the front of my tow rope than an unknown Private
pilot because the Commercial pilot has been trained to a higher standard and
probably has more experience. I have had some wild tows in my life and that is
something I can happily live without.

Don't get me wrong, in a club situation I could be happy and honored to tow
behind a good Private pilot, particularly one that was also a glider pilot.

But It *IS* about safety.
Vaughn












petency is a
very individual thing, but having passed the requirements for the Commercial
does establish a certain minimum.

Vaughn



--

Peter D. Brown
http://home.gci.net/~pdb/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akmtnsoaring/

Vaughn wrote:

"Pete Brown" wrote in message

That's one of the
primary reasons that a tow pilot must get ground and flight
training by a CFIG and make at least three tows while
accompanied by a tow "qualified" pilot.

Three tows ain't much!

It's worse than this. You don't need three tows. You can
do three "simulated tows" instead to become qualified.

This is how I was initially "qualified." Got the
endorsements to prove it. Saved $100 on the insurance
increase for adding a tow pilot. Yee-ha!

After that I did enough tows to ensure I knew I could
do at least the basics of towing...

Of course I did this with supervision. The experienced
tow pilot sat in the right seat. I even turned down one
tow and made him do it. :P

I sure wouldn't tow no "first solo" student, or a ballasted
ship, as my very first tow, or even my first dozen. But there ARE
tow syllabi and good towpilot mentors that can get a
pilot to the level that with an experienced glider guy
behind him, he'll be safe enough to tow with reasonable
safety.

IMHO, right? Otherwise it looks like we'll need to invest in
some wenches instead...
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

I believe it's only legal in Nevada to invest in wenches!
Almost springtime!
Larry
Mark James Boyd wrote:
Vaughn wrote:

"Pete Brown" wrote in message

That's one of the
primary reasons that a tow pilot must get ground and flight
training by a CFIG and make at least three tows while
accompanied by a tow "qualified" pilot.

Three tows ain't much!

It's worse than this. You don't need three tows. You can
do three "simulated tows" instead to become qualified.

This is how I was initially "qualified." Got the
endorsements to prove it. Saved $100 on the insurance
increase for adding a tow pilot. Yee-ha!

After that I did enough tows to ensure I knew I could
do at least the basics of towing...

Of course I did this with supervision. The experienced
tow pilot sat in the right seat. I even turned down one
tow and made him do it. :P

I sure wouldn't tow no "first solo" student, or a ballasted
ship, as my very first tow, or even my first dozen. But there ARE
tow syllabi and good towpilot mentors that can get a
pilot to the level that with an experienced glider guy
behind him, he'll be safe enough to tow with reasonable
safety.

IMHO, right? Otherwise it looks like we'll need to invest in
some wenches instead...
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

Today we picked up what the US Glider Flying Handbook
describes as a "wench."

I've never owned a wench before. Well, she's a

Larry's Welding
Gehrlein Winch
Model 62 Serial#14

She's a model! From the first looks of her, we decided to name her
Rusty.

She hasn't had any action in 15 years, so we had a bit of a
hard time getting the parts moving properly. Might
need quite a bit of work. Too early to tell about the engine,
but the rest is absolutely marvelous. Seeing the intricasies
of this machine today gave so much more detail than
just reading about it or even pictures. The tensiometer, the
way the guillotine was set up, the rollers, really this is something
neat.

The amount of sheer metal and heft was something I hadn't expected.
And the way the thing is balanced and framed is quite sturdy.

It may end up as something we can't get to run for launching,
If not, it certainly would look nice with some paint
at one of the local museums. We'll see how it goes.

In the meantime, if anyone else has a similar "model,"
we'd love to trade photos...

wrote:
I believe it's only legal in Nevada to invest in wenches!
Almost springtime!
Larry
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

you might want to join http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=winchdesign

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:41f327a3$1@darkstar...
Today we picked up what the US Glider Flying Handbook
describes as a "wench."

I've never owned a wench before. Well, she's a

Larry's Welding
Gehrlein Winch
Model 62 Serial#14

She's a model! From the first looks of her, we decided to name her
Rusty.

She hasn't had any action in 15 years, so we had a bit of a
hard time getting the parts moving properly. Might
need quite a bit of work. Too early to tell about the engine,
but the rest is absolutely marvelous. Seeing the intricasies
of this machine today gave so much more detail than
just reading about it or even pictures. The tensiometer, the
way the guillotine was set up, the rollers, really this is something
neat.

The amount of sheer metal and heft was something I hadn't expected.
And the way the thing is balanced and framed is quite sturdy.

It may end up as something we can't get to run for launching,
If not, it certainly would look nice with some paint
at one of the local museums. We'll see how it goes.

In the meantime, if anyone else has a similar "model,"
we'd love to trade photos...

wrote:
I believe it's only legal in Nevada to invest in wenches!
Almost springtime!
Larry
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd