Revisiting declining membership

Jacek

I agree with your general viewpoint but ---- buy a PW-6 and take the
wife flying too The glider will cost at least 10,000 Euros LESS than a
Discus !! A two-place can be more fun, eh?

wrote:
You know...after reading all postings I still come to the conclusion
that the declining membership is related directly to the cost. It
doesn't matter if the dollar is strong or weak, or if the Euro
dominates the world. What it matters is that gliders and related
equipment are extremely expensive. Bottom line. Discus cost nowadays
50,000 euros, add trailer, lets say Cobra...about 10,000 Euros, add
some instruments...lets say $5000.00, pay all the shipping cost from
Europe, pay ( in state of Washington we have to pay a use tax which I
believe is about 8%) and that will give you pretty good idea about the
cost of sailplanes.

Charles Yeates wrote:
Jacek

I agree with your general viewpoint but ---- buy a PW-6 and take the
wife flying too The glider will cost at least 10,000 Euros LESS than a
Discus !! A two-place can be more fun, eh?

My wife said I could buy the more expensive single-seater instead of a
cheaper two-seater if I promised not to take her flying. After a few
years, she told me I could have a motorglider if I promised to make it
home every day...



--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

I'm almost ready to suggest that soaring clubs, and maybe even
SSA, become aerosports clubs.

Parachutists, hang gliders, ultralights, powered parachutes are
all pretty closely related to soaring, I think. I just
yesterday talked to Morris Yoder, who got the very first ELSA
powered parachute certified as an Experimental Light Sport
Aircraft. He faxed me the Operating Limitations, and they
allow training for hire. Yeah!

I'd like to see the Glider ASTM committee plunk a
Quicksilver Sport MXII in front of them and write a
GLIDER standard for Special Light Sport Aircraft.
That would attract several thousand new members over the
next five years. And the MXII actually has a low enough
sink rate and tight thermalling speed, you could
soar in it! Especially with just 1 occupant...

So how about it? The ultralight guys are gonna be homeless
soon, the "Sport Pilot and Light Sport Aircraft" scene
is blooming, the parachute guys need more Dropzones, and
the hang glider guys would LOVE to try winch or
aerotow...

All they need is somewhere without all those damn JETS
getting mad because they're so slow.

Central California Aerosports Club? Sounds good to me...

Aerosport Society of America? I'm tellin' ya, there's
gonna be a consolidation of the Ultralight orgs, and
there's gonna be a renaming of the hang gliding org,
so maybe we can "absorb" these guys...

Is Sponge Bob a glider pilot?

In article . com,
Jack wrote:
This thread took off on course but meandered off to a dying cu. I agree
that Hobbs at least needs to be a soaring site.

What's needed is NEW MEMBERS. People come into this sport and leave
with frightening regularity. They will come in and get their license,
and disappear after a couple of years because - in my humble opinion -
1.) the cost of competitive sailplanes is too high - 2.) the cost of
operating a new sailplane per hour can be outrageous - 3.) too many FAI
pilots fly in lesser classes, and don't share their knowledge with
fledgling competitors - 4.) they get scared off early due to cost - 5.)
Hell, it just costs a lot of money to do this in most places.

Let's focus on growing the sport/hobby of soaring. I think we're
missing a great deal of potential soaring pilots in the radio control
model ranks.I think clubs should host R/C soaring clubs for a day and
offer rides at a reduced rate, close the airport at 5:00 PM and let
them show you a thing or two about THEIR form of soaring. Some of that
effort will be wasted. Some will pay off. There will be a few of those
guys that will become good soaring pilots/club members.

I have been doing R/C soaring stuff since 1973, and flying real
sailplanes since 1985. I am just getting back into the air after a
4-year absence, but I also just bought a sailplane.

Another problem I percieve is the "You gotta have the latest, greatest,
fastest, slipperiest or you're a nobody" syndrome. I spent some money,
not too much, and I'm enthralled with my ship. It isn't the latest
thing. In fact, far, far from it. I finally learned that, regardless of
the opinions of some of my wel-meaning friends, I can be very happy
with yesterday's hotty. If you're telling people that you have to spend
$50K or more to be happy... please STOP!!

Another thing is the club structure. I can't really speak to this much,
becase I've been a member of only 3 clubs. Admittedly, the first one
SPOILED me. I have since compared just about all of my flying
experiences, R/C and real, to that club, as a benchmark. Texas Soaring
Association is a hard thing for others to live up to. However, Soaring
Club of Houston has improved to become a VERY close second. The other
club I was involved with was not good to me at all, and I had a bad
experience there. That club and others like it, are partly responsible
for soaring's decline. Again, my opinion, I'm sure yours is different.

Instructors teach people to take off and land, box the wake, stall, and
basic maneuvers. Clubs need a SOARING instructor to hand these people
off to. FLoating around the airport at minimum sink does get boring.

I'm stepping off my soap box now... to spend some time with the
girls...

Jack Womack



--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

snoop wrote:
Looking through all the posts from earlier this year, regarding the
sliding membership in our US soaring activities, along with all the
other trailing bad news, i.e. SSA building in need of big repairs,
there is no soaring operation in Hobbs, I'm curious about thoughts of
"what if the SSA became a division of the EAA, similar to the
Vintage,
Classic, Warbird divisions of the EAA.

Two big airshow/conventions a year, EAA publishes all magazines, and
a
lot of members at those fly-ins and airshows to ask the question
"where
can I start". Plus lobbying power, and unlimited networking.
Just curious for thoughts.

About declining membership:
SSA Board and Hobbs staff have been working hard on reversing the
declining membership in SSA. This has been approached to a great extent
by working toward retention of members, including personal letters to
many lapsed members asking why they have left.
Dinner conversation with my director brought up that SSA has had some
success this year in this effort.
Membership as of 12/31/04 was 12,617 compared to 12,305.
It is a good sign when you can reverse a bad trend.
There are no simple answers, but hard work does pay off as shown above.
Let's go get some more folks involved and try to keep the ones we have.
UH

Good idea. Maybe talk up the glider stuff on the
Sport Pilot forum on Yahoo! groups so that there are 1000
messages per month, many about gliding, instead of 200
a month from wandering potential pilots.

I've sent 3 people to gliderports, and at two of them, they
were not warmly welcomed. One glider DPE actually told a
guy that CFIGs can't do Sport Pilot training. Hahaha...
It'd be funnier if it wasn't so pitifully disappointing, and
incorrect.

If you can't join them, then beat them. This sport needs
a few more ambassadors, and a lot less humbugs.

So I applied to be a Sport Pilot Examiner for gliders and
for ASEL. All you naysayers better write your cards and letters, and
make your calls to the selection board right now, before it's
too late. Otherwise there will be 2-33s swarming YOUR gliderports
with candidates I'VE examined.

I think there are many ultralights that would meet all the
qualifications to be experimental gliders, or even SLSA.
And I plan to make buckets (very small buckets) of money
making this happen and giving these
newly FAA minted pilots a home. They are sweating it out right now,
thinking their ULs will be lawn ornaments. The ASEL sport
pilot standards are ok, but not ideal. I'm going to give them
an alternative that keeps transponders and ELTs out of their
tube and fabric aircraft.

Beyond that I'll keep selling my particular brand of snake oil,
encouraging people to become Advanced Ground Instructors,
and building my winch, and putting together my auto-tow
gear. And maybe even refurbishing a gasp Schweizer 2-22!!!

Spring is here. I've been busy building hope. Now the
hopeful want to come out and play in the sun. I plan to help
them.

Wanna come play?

In article ,
.......... :-\)\) wrote:
There is no point in continuing to talk about this problem. Unless we reach
some concensus and do something about it nothing is going to change. Too
much talk and not enough action.

Talking amoungst ourselves will get us nowhere. We need to start promoting
ourself in the wider world.



"Jack" wrote in message
oups.com...
This thread took off on course but meandered off to a dying cu. I agree
that Hobbs at least needs to be a soaring site.

What's needed is NEW MEMBERS. People come into this sport and leave
with frightening regularity. They will come in and get their license,
and disappear after a couple of years because - in my humble opinion -
1.) the cost of competitive sailplanes is too high - 2.) the cost of
operating a new sailplane per hour can be outrageous - 3.) too many FAI
pilots fly in lesser classes, and don't share their knowledge with
fledgling competitors - 4.) they get scared off early due to cost - 5.)
Hell, it just costs a lot of money to do this in most places.

Let's focus on growing the sport/hobby of soaring. I think we're
missing a great deal of potential soaring pilots in the radio control
model ranks.I think clubs should host R/C soaring clubs for a day and
offer rides at a reduced rate, close the airport at 5:00 PM and let
them show you a thing or two about THEIR form of soaring. Some of that
effort will be wasted. Some will pay off. There will be a few of those
guys that will become good soaring pilots/club members.

I have been doing R/C soaring stuff since 1973, and flying real
sailplanes since 1985. I am just getting back into the air after a
4-year absence, but I also just bought a sailplane.

Another problem I percieve is the "You gotta have the latest, greatest,
fastest, slipperiest or you're a nobody" syndrome. I spent some money,
not too much, and I'm enthralled with my ship. It isn't the latest
thing. In fact, far, far from it. I finally learned that, regardless of
the opinions of some of my wel-meaning friends, I can be very happy
with yesterday's hotty. If you're telling people that you have to spend
$50K or more to be happy... please STOP!!

Another thing is the club structure. I can't really speak to this much,
becase I've been a member of only 3 clubs. Admittedly, the first one
SPOILED me. I have since compared just about all of my flying
experiences, R/C and real, to that club, as a benchmark. Texas Soaring
Association is a hard thing for others to live up to. However, Soaring
Club of Houston has improved to become a VERY close second. The other
club I was involved with was not good to me at all, and I had a bad
experience there. That club and others like it, are partly responsible
for soaring's decline. Again, my opinion, I'm sure yours is different.

Instructors teach people to take off and land, box the wake, stall, and
basic maneuvers. Clubs need a SOARING instructor to hand these people
off to. FLoating around the airport at minimum sink does get boring.

I'm stepping off my soap box now... to spend some time with the
girls...

Jack Womack





--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

Mark James Boyd wrote:
...All you naysayers better write your cards and letters, and
make your calls to the selection board right now, before it's
too late. Otherwise there will be 2-33s swarming YOUR gliderports
with candidates I'VE examined.

And they'd be welcome at my club, I'm sure. Too bad these pilots
wouldn't be able to fly our Blaniks due to their retractable gear.

Tony V.

After a few years, she told me I could have a motorglider if I promised to
make it home every day...

This is just about word for word what my wife said ,she has done all the
usual female
tricks to divert my attention to keep me nearer home but when she realised
that I was
not going to change this comment resulted .
I think a lot of us downplay how much pressure is put on by our life
partner.

gary

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...
Charles Yeates wrote:
Jacek

I agree with your general viewpoint but ---- buy a PW-6 and take the wife
flying too The glider will cost at least 10,000 Euros LESS than a Discus
!! A two-place can be more fun, eh?

My wife said I could buy the more expensive single-seater instead of a
cheaper two-seater if I promised not to take her flying. After a few
years, she told me I could have a motorglider if I promised to make it
home every day...



--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

The retractable gear is not the problem preventing a Sport Pilot from flying
the Blanik. The Sports Pilot rules allows gliders with retractable gear.
(See: http://www.sportpilot.org/rule/sp_rule.pdf) The Blanik's problem is
that the Vne is 136 kts which exceeds the Sport Aircraft maximum of 120 kts.

Sport Pilot training requirements can be found at
http://www.sportpilot.org/becoming/new_pilot.html.

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder


"Tony Verhulst" wrote in message
...
Mark James Boyd wrote:
...All you naysayers better write your cards and letters, and
make your calls to the selection board right now, before it's
too late. Otherwise there will be 2-33s swarming YOUR gliderports
with candidates I'VE examined.

And they'd be welcome at my club, I'm sure. Too bad these pilots
wouldn't be able to fly our Blaniks due to their retractable gear.

Tony V.

Keith,

I read your mesages about your club and I feel your pain. I went to a
particular club all one summer and got 20 minutes flying time due to
some "Catch 22" rules. Did it make me quit... no. Did it make me
appreciate a good club even more... YES!!! If you're not getting any
more than that out of it, maybe you need to change clubs.

I will say the soaring today in the U.S. would be nothing without
volunteer labor. I hate to continue to elevate Texas Soaring
Association to some plateau that others won't be able to achieve, but
as wealthy as the club is, there greatest asset is the membership. That
group, that I'm proud to say I was once a member of, has the talent to
do about anything they need to get done. Their Pawnees are stunning.
Their gliders are well maintained. Their facilities are wonderful.

I am very encouraged about the Soaring Club of Houston. I did quite a
bit of work since joining in July. I haven't flown much but that's
about to change, since I just got my own ship. I will continue to work
to build this club to one day match what I know is possible. Not
tooting my own horn, but just trying to encourage others, including
Keith, not to give up. If you're not getting what you think you need
out of it, examine your situation and fix it. If it means going to
another club, GO!

Tell others about soaring. Take them up if possible. You never know
where the next really great club member is going to come from. Our
average age is getting older, and our numbers are dwindling. It takes
someone special to be a glider pilot, in my opinion. Those folks are
out there, though, and we're not reaching them. Again, I think SSA and
local clubs should do an R/C day and invite the local R/C Soaring
groups out for a demo ride and a cookout. They already love soaring...
Lots of work for some... yep... it's worth it to continue this greatest
of aviation advantures... (hahaha, waxing poetic here... not bad for an
old West Texas Bumpkin.)
Chin up! GO FLY!!! TELL SOMEONE HOW TERRIFIC IT IS!!!!!!

Jack Womack

' A two-place can be more fun, eh?'

Only if it's side by side and co-piloted by an attractive
female companion... ;-)

At 13:30 28 January 2005, Charles Yeates wrote:
Jacek

I agree with your general viewpoint but ---- buy a
PW-6 and take the
wife flying too The glider will cost at least 10,000
Euros LESS than a
Discus !! A two-place can be more fun, eh?

wrote:
You know...after reading all postings I still come
to the conclusion
that the declining membership is related directly
to the cost. It
doesn't matter if the dollar is strong or weak, or
if the Euro
dominates the world. What it matters is that gliders
and related
equipment are extremely expensive. Bottom line. Discus
cost nowadays
50,000 euros, add trailer, lets say Cobra...about
10,000 Euros, add
some instruments...lets say $5000.00, pay all the
shipping cost from
Europe, pay ( in state of Washington we have to pay
a use tax which I
believe is about 8%) and that will give you pretty
good idea about the
cost of sailplanes.