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At 12:00 01 February 2005, Stephanevdv wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if soaring hasn't already reached a kind of critical mass. Apart from other competing interests and local availability factors, the cost will always limit many people in their endeavours to become a soaring pilot. To get the costs down sufficiently to really interest a new kind of public, you would have to multiply the number of sailplanes and pilots so much, that our already cluttered airspace would be completely saturated. -- stephanevdv Lots of truth in that statment; we can't expect the numbers to quadruple. ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ Posted via OziPilots Online [ http://www.OziPilotsOnline.com.au ] - A website for Australian Pilots regardless of when, why, or what they fly - |
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The numbers will continue to shrink in the current environment.
BUT, there is a way that soaring can move into the forefront. And, in this way, the numbers of pilots could indeed quadruple. But the status quo itself is the main impediment. There are too many entities that have a vested interest in keeping things exactly the same...presiding over their own eventual disappearance. It is not that these entities know what they are doing. In fact, they are just trying to survive in some cases and doing what they see are the best methods for improving and expanding the sport. In any endeavor, the establishment acts in this manner. And, in any endeavor with a steady input of youth, the status quo is eventually either replaced or swept aside. As one of many, many examples, take snowboards. Skills derived from skateboarding went to the ski slopes over the dead bodies of the skiers. Now, the growth is in shredding, not skiing. It is not because the establishment of skiers decided to switch. It is because the young wanted them out of the way and when they did not move, they were ignored. This analogy can be replaced with dozens more but how does it apply to soaring and what I see as a dilemna in participation? I think a similar act by ANY young pilots could revive the sport...or reverse it in certain ways. First, they must ignore sailplane racing as it exists today. It is, in fact, a baseball game being played with a corked bat. First, a hundred grand for an airplane that you cannot fly but four months a year is a luxury and one that youth cannot afford and most people cannot justify. It is hard enough justifying an airplane that actually goes places. Sailboats can sail year round even if they don't. There are cheaper alternatives, though. The 13M ship is that alternatives. Still not cheap, it costs less than many of the cars that kids drive today. But how can a less capable aircraft compete against more capable ones? It cannot. So screw them. Play your own game. Instead of competing in "vacation eating", death-march-tasked boredom festivals in desolate back country, hold sprint races wherever you can find lift. A Sprint Race (invented by ME) involves a few aircraft starting in a cylinder at the same time (yes, i know the Euros are doing something similar now but I proposed it long before them), flying a short task (to quarter mile AST turnpoints) designed to last no more than an hour and a half, and finishing at a FINISH LINE in front of the gate/audience/crews. The time limit is important for several reasons; not the least of which is the boredom that exists back at the strip while you are out in your ship scratching around in two knots. Fellows: She isn't coming back out to help you ever again after you put her through that. But if she doesn't have to commit the family vacation and the entire lifestyle, gets to visit with other people who are excited about a race they are watching, then she just might. And with 30:1 ships, you just might need a crew again..... The ships and trailers will be painted in a variety of bright colors and covered with vinyl advertisements not unlike the vehicles of the most popular sport in America. If one wants to push it, then the production methods proposed by me for a televised race bought by Fox to be shown ten times could be employed. Lipstick cameras, camera ships, computer images (held to a minimum) and all that stuff could be used to create a venue that is watchable, exciting and inviting...especially when a young pilot crawls out of the winning ship to stand on the podium to collect his/her check and put his Red Bull cap on for the cameras to see. It is a race that favors skill just like it does now. You have to find lift. You have to have situation awareness. You have to practice. But you don't need anyone to call a PST so you can stay in the lead over a week of racing. The guy in front is in the lead. Got it? Like a RACE! Local eliminations create a hierarchy that competes in the Nationals. In two years, I could have the National Champion of Sprint Racing on the front cover of Outside Magazine. That's when it would quadruple. Sky Racing. Cloud Sprints. Skyluges. Not gliders. Crash helmets. Not silly old man's doofus hats. Reflexes. Not reflection. And the cool thing is that there is no reason that the same people cannot compete. It just favors gamblers a little more than bookies like the current thing does. No. It's not the kindly old gentleman's sport that is now dying of constipation. But, on the other hand, it kicks ass. It is something that someone (spelled A M E R I C A N) would want to do. We couldn't beat the Euros at open wheel Formula One racing. So what did we do? We started drag racing. Honestly, the idea of being alone way the hell out in nowhere while all my friends are getting laid is not exactly what I have in mind for a fun weekend. On the other hand, winners get laid. Right. Get laid. Don't be so naive as to ask what the relevance of that phrase is to growth, attraction of youth, attraction of sponsors and money, or survival of the fittest sport. Winners get laid and they get rewarded and they get famous. Think about all the dead guys you know in soaring while I think about all the dead guys I know in aviation in general. The other guys were trying to make money, win a prize, or do the impossible. In soaring, you can lose big but you cannot ever win big. Cost too much for what you get. Requires too much time for what you get. Involves too risk for what you get. It is not all those things that everyone says about money, time and risk. It is WHAT YOU GET that your fellow Americans don't recognize as worth it. Ever notice how their eyes glaze over when you try to tell them about the beauty of flying with an eagle? Now tell them about passing someone in the final stretch of a race in your bright red Sparrowhawk to finish just out of the money and see how they follow every word. They are the market. Duh. So, we have the manufacturers of 13M gliders. They have to wait until the infrastructure creates enough pilots before they start to sell gliders in any numbers. And the infrastructure cannot do it. And the status quo will just want to start yet another class thereby burying these less capable machines. No. If they want to sell, they have to sell into their own sport with their own marketing. And they need someone like me to do it. Otherwise, they will be a minor footnote. They must separate now, in my not so humble opinion. Ahhh. That felt good. |
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Say, John,
Have you seen the latest gliders? $4,000 and they look real, real cool. Well, at least the pilot and the FAA think it's a glider. But don't tell anybody, ok, this will just be our little secret...shhhhh http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~mjboyd/cfi/...lverGlider.jpg Shhhhhh... In article . net, John Shelton wrote: The numbers will continue to shrink in the current environment. BUT, there is a way that soaring can move into the forefront. And, in this way, the numbers of pilots could indeed quadruple. But the status quo itself is the main impediment. There are too many entities that have a vested interest in keeping things exactly the same...presiding over their own eventual disappearance. It is not that these entities know what they are doing. In fact, they are just trying to survive in some cases and doing what they see are the best methods for improving and expanding the sport. In any endeavor, the establishment acts in this manner. And, in any endeavor with a steady input of youth, the status quo is eventually either replaced or swept aside. As one of many, many examples, take snowboards. Skills derived from skateboarding went to the ski slopes over the dead bodies of the skiers. Now, the growth is in shredding, not skiing. It is not because the establishment of skiers decided to switch. It is because the young wanted them out of the way and when they did not move, they were ignored. This analogy can be replaced with dozens more but how does it apply to soaring and what I see as a dilemna in participation? I think a similar act by ANY young pilots could revive the sport...or reverse it in certain ways. First, they must ignore sailplane racing as it exists today. It is, in fact, a baseball game being played with a corked bat. First, a hundred grand for an airplane that you cannot fly but four months a year is a luxury and one that youth cannot afford and most people cannot justify. It is hard enough justifying an airplane that actually goes places. Sailboats can sail year round even if they don't. There are cheaper alternatives, though. The 13M ship is that alternatives. Still not cheap, it costs less than many of the cars that kids drive today. But how can a less capable aircraft compete against more capable ones? It cannot. So screw them. Play your own game. Instead of competing in "vacation eating", death-march-tasked boredom festivals in desolate back country, hold sprint races wherever you can find lift. A Sprint Race (invented by ME) involves a few aircraft starting in a cylinder at the same time (yes, i know the Euros are doing something similar now but I proposed it long before them), flying a short task (to quarter mile AST turnpoints) designed to last no more than an hour and a half, and finishing at a FINISH LINE in front of the gate/audience/crews. The time limit is important for several reasons; not the least of which is the boredom that exists back at the strip while you are out in your ship scratching around in two knots. Fellows: She isn't coming back out to help you ever again after you put her through that. But if she doesn't have to commit the family vacation and the entire lifestyle, gets to visit with other people who are excited about a race they are watching, then she just might. And with 30:1 ships, you just might need a crew again..... The ships and trailers will be painted in a variety of bright colors and covered with vinyl advertisements not unlike the vehicles of the most popular sport in America. If one wants to push it, then the production methods proposed by me for a televised race bought by Fox to be shown ten times could be employed. Lipstick cameras, camera ships, computer images (held to a minimum) and all that stuff could be used to create a venue that is watchable, exciting and inviting...especially when a young pilot crawls out of the winning ship to stand on the podium to collect his/her check and put his Red Bull cap on for the cameras to see. It is a race that favors skill just like it does now. You have to find lift. You have to have situation awareness. You have to practice. But you don't need anyone to call a PST so you can stay in the lead over a week of racing. The guy in front is in the lead. Got it? Like a RACE! Local eliminations create a hierarchy that competes in the Nationals. In two years, I could have the National Champion of Sprint Racing on the front cover of Outside Magazine. That's when it would quadruple. Sky Racing. Cloud Sprints. Skyluges. Not gliders. Crash helmets. Not silly old man's doofus hats. Reflexes. Not reflection. And the cool thing is that there is no reason that the same people cannot compete. It just favors gamblers a little more than bookies like the current thing does. No. It's not the kindly old gentleman's sport that is now dying of constipation. But, on the other hand, it kicks ass. It is something that someone (spelled A M E R I C A N) would want to do. We couldn't beat the Euros at open wheel Formula One racing. So what did we do? We started drag racing. Honestly, the idea of being alone way the hell out in nowhere while all my friends are getting laid is not exactly what I have in mind for a fun weekend. On the other hand, winners get laid. Right. Get laid. Don't be so naive as to ask what the relevance of that phrase is to growth, attraction of youth, attraction of sponsors and money, or survival of the fittest sport. Winners get laid and they get rewarded and they get famous. Think about all the dead guys you know in soaring while I think about all the dead guys I know in aviation in general. The other guys were trying to make money, win a prize, or do the impossible. In soaring, you can lose big but you cannot ever win big. Cost too much for what you get. Requires too much time for what you get. Involves too risk for what you get. It is not all those things that everyone says about money, time and risk. It is WHAT YOU GET that your fellow Americans don't recognize as worth it. Ever notice how their eyes glaze over when you try to tell them about the beauty of flying with an eagle? Now tell them about passing someone in the final stretch of a race in your bright red Sparrowhawk to finish just out of the money and see how they follow every word. They are the market. Duh. So, we have the manufacturers of 13M gliders. They have to wait until the infrastructure creates enough pilots before they start to sell gliders in any numbers. And the infrastructure cannot do it. And the status quo will just want to start yet another class thereby burying these less capable machines. No. If they want to sell, they have to sell into their own sport with their own marketing. And they need someone like me to do it. Otherwise, they will be a minor footnote. They must separate now, in my not so humble opinion. Ahhh. That felt good. -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd |
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Mark James Boyd wrote:
Say, John, Have you seen the latest gliders? $4,000 and they look real, real cool. Well, at least the pilot and the FAA think it's a glider. But don't tell anybody, ok, this will just be our little secret...shhhhh I doubt _anyone_ thinks it's a glider, but apparently they do registered that way sometimes. It's certainly not going to work for what John wants to do. It might serve to introduce pilots to slope soaring and thermalling, especially if there are two seaters, and maybe this would whet the appetite of someone for glider that could fly cross country (or even just to the next thermal occasionally). Potentially, having aircraft that aren't gliders being registered as gliders could cause us problems, such as rules and regulations (FAA, airport, insurance) that address their operation and safety record, which could screw up sailplane operations. I think we've been lucky that touring motorgliders have been included in the glider category for so long without causing apparent problems, and maybe having ultralight airplanes in the mix won't either. Maybe all the players will understand these are gliders by registration only, and treat them appropriately, rather that treating all registered gliders the same. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA |
#5
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I think it's a glider. The pilot thinks it's a glider. The AC
defines it as a glider. The DAR thinks it's a glider. The FAA thinks it's a glider. The instructor who signed him off for self-launch thinks it's a glider. And there are now at least several dozen ultralight pilots who think it is a glider. Eric, if you're so sure it isn't a glider, you better get in and STOP this craziness, before it ruins gliding! Call and write the people who make the rules and tell them how wrong it is to use span and weight calculations to define a glider. And how wrong it is to use minimum sink as a parameter, and how penetration is what really matters. Of course, you might want to be careful. If you're too convincing, they'll cancel making ultralights gliders, but will start certifying jet airliners all as gliders. Then you'll need a type rating and part 121 check to fly your self-launcher!!!! :P Hmmm...thinking about John's idea, yeah I'd love to watch a half dozen of these gliders jamming around a short triangle course at Avenal. And a toilet paper cutting contest too... But that's ok, Eric. If you don't want them, we'll take them. After all, they have to spend their money SOMEWHERE, right? :PPPPP In article , Eric Greenwell wrote: Mark James Boyd wrote: Say, John, Have you seen the latest gliders? $4,000 and they look real, real cool. Well, at least the pilot and the FAA think it's a glider. But don't tell anybody, ok, this will just be our little secret...shhhhh I doubt _anyone_ thinks it's a glider, but apparently they do registered that way sometimes. It's certainly not going to work for what John wants to do. It might serve to introduce pilots to slope soaring and thermalling, especially if there are two seaters, and maybe this would whet the appetite of someone for glider that could fly cross country (or even just to the next thermal occasionally). Potentially, having aircraft that aren't gliders being registered as gliders could cause us problems, such as rules and regulations (FAA, airport, insurance) that address their operation and safety record, which could screw up sailplane operations. I think we've been lucky that touring motorgliders have been included in the glider category for so long without causing apparent problems, and maybe having ultralight airplanes in the mix won't either. Maybe all the players will understand these are gliders by registration only, and treat them appropriately, rather that treating all registered gliders the same. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd |
#6
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The actuaries think that these gliders are the same risk as even the
safest gliders available. Fortunately there are enough already registered as experimentals they already have a track record. Avemco quotes about $280 for the single seat Quicksilver glider, about $330 for two seat Quicksilver glider. 1-800-874-9125 (I don't have any financial interest in this company, but I am a customer). This is similar to what it charges for the same coverage in 1-26 and 2-33. And similar to the coverage of Baby Ace and Cessna 172. The rates quoted are for basic liability only, $100,000/$400,000. As far as I can tell, as an insurance outsider, it seems that these gliders fall into the same "lowest risk group" as the other aircraft mentioned. Could there be a rash of accidents in Quicksilver gliders that might damage the sport of gliding as a whole? Require transponders and ELTs in all gliders? Perhaps. But I don't see this. *******Transponders become mandatory?******* If transponders (especially mode S) and ELTs end up becoming mandated in gliders, I don't see the Quicksilver gliders being the cause. If transponders become mandatory, I'd point my finger directly at Delta, Continental, regional airlines, etc. The ones that brought you the 10,000 foot limit for Rec pilot, and who have a large number of "retirees" who are FSDO employess now. Get a list of your local FSDO ASI names and check: http://registry.faa.gov/amquery.asp A typical entry: ATP Type ratings: A/AVR-146 A/BAE-146 A/EMB-110 A/EMB-120 A/SD-3 Many FAA ASIs have airline time. The thought of a non-transpondered aircraft doing mach .05 while they are closing with 100+ passengers at mach .50+ makes them a bit nervous even to talk about. Fortunately for soaring, airliners seem to generally avoid turbulence, while sailplanes seek it, so there seems to be some natural tendency towards separation already. And something like the Quicksilver glider just isn't going to fly above 10,000 anyway with the power on, since the engine doesn't have that much UMPH! I think if we see transponders, it will be TSA or maybe a jet/glider midair precipitating it. I don't think Quicksilver is gonna make that happen... Eric Greenwell wrote: Potentially, having aircraft that aren't gliders being registered as gliders could cause us problems, such as rules and regulations (FAA, airport, insurance) that address their operation and safety record, which could screw up sailplane operations. I think we've been lucky that touring motorgliders have been included in the glider category for so long without causing apparent problems, and maybe having ultralight airplanes in the mix won't either. Maybe all the players will understand these are gliders by registration only, and treat them appropriately, rather that treating all registered gliders the same. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd |
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Mark James Boyd wrote:
Could there be a rash of accidents in Quicksilver gliders that might damage the sport of gliding as a whole? Require transponders and ELTs in all gliders? Perhaps. But I don't see this. *******Transponders become mandatory?******* If transponders (especially mode S) and ELTs end up becoming mandated in gliders, I don't see the Quicksilver gliders being the cause. It would depend on the numbers, I think. A few hundred won't enlarge the number "gliders" flying, and hence the increased risk of causing a serious accident that would be attributed to a glider are small. But if a few thousand become "gliders"... Any idea of the numbers we might be talking about? How many Quicksilver type aircraft are there out there? -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA |
#8
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Mark James Boyd wrote:
I think it's a glider. Really? If that's a glider, then the term "glider" is a worthless one, isn't it? It becomes the name of catch-all category, not a description of the aircraft. The pilot thinks it's a glider. Why does the pilot think it's a glider? Has he never seen even a 2-33? The AC defines it as a glider. The DAR thinks it's a glider. He may accept is as fitting in the glider category, but I doubt that he thinks it's a glider. The FAA thinks it's a glider. And I'm sure they know it's not a glider, but some of them are willing to go along with registering it that way. The instructor who signed him off for self-launch thinks it's a glider. I'd like to hear the instructor say that with a straight face. And there are now at least several dozen ultralight pilots who think it is a glider. I suspect they are also willing to go along with the charade. Bonus time! It doesn't have to make sense if you get to do what you want. Eric, if you're so sure it isn't a glider, you better get in and STOP this craziness, before it ruins gliding! The glider category has a number of regulatory perks we treasure, and I don't want these to disappear by filling the category with such enormously different aircraft. I'm not sure that they will disappear, especially if the numbers of ultralights remains low. It might even be an asset, if it leads those pilots to discover soaring and the aircraft that do it (I call them gliders and sailplanes, almost interchangeably), but it's an experiment that likely can't be undone if it goes badly. Call and write the people who make the rules and tell them how wrong it is to use span and weight calculations to define a glider. And how wrong it is to use minimum sink as a parameter, and how penetration is what really matters. Isn't this the problem? None of these criteria apply to experimentally licensed aircraft. Surely, the Quicksilver is not _certified_ as glider? Of course, you might want to be careful. If you're too convincing, they'll cancel making ultralights gliders, but will start certifying jet airliners all as gliders. Jet airliners don't meet the certification requirements for gliders, regardless of how convincing I am. Then you'll need a type rating and part 121 check to fly your self-launcher!!!! In some European countries (maybe all), a self-launcher is NOT treated like a glider, but instead requires a license much like a power plane. I hope that never happens here, but I get very uneasy when I see such non-glider aircraft like the Quicksilver being considered "motorgliders". If problems occur because of "motorgliders" of any sort (ultralight or powered sailplanes), it's easy to imagine that an FAA solution might be separating them from the glider category and treating them more like airplanes. That would be loss for everyone and sport. I think we've been lucky so far that powered sailplanes and touring motorgliders are still in the glider category. :P Hmmm...thinking about John's idea, yeah I'd love to watch a half dozen of these gliders jamming around a short triangle course at Avenal. And a toilet paper cutting contest too... But that's ok, Eric. If you don't want them, we'll take them. After all, they have to spend their money SOMEWHERE, right? I like John's idea, but I don't think he had Quicksilvers in mind. They would not be able to soar around the course. To me, this not analogous to having snow boarders show up at the ski hill: it's more like ATVs showing up at the ski hill. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA |
#9
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In article ,
Eric Greenwell wrote: Isn't this the problem? None of these criteria apply to experimentally licensed aircraft. Surely, the Quicksilver is not _certified_ as glider? Scrivner Quicksilver MX, tail number N69QT, experimental glider. Chuck Scrivner is a glider pilot, initially trained in aerotowed gliders. He now has a self-launch endorsement and exercises this privilege whenever he launches his Quicksilver glider. It meets the span to weight criteria, so he certified it as a glider. Why does the pilot think it's a glider? Has he never seen even a 2-33? He has. He has also looked at his airworthiness certificate. And he has thermalled and ridge soared this Quicksilver glider. The glider category has a number of regulatory perks we treasure, and I don't want these to disappear by filling the category with such enormously different aircraft. I'm not sure that they will disappear, especially if the numbers of ultralights remains low. It might even be an asset, if it leads those pilots to discover soaring and the aircraft that do it (I call them gliders and sailplanes, almost interchangeably), but it's an experiment that likely can't be undone if it goes badly. Again, I didn't say this SHOULD happen, just that it IS happening, and it is worth looking into. I'd like to see the ASA consciously decide to help accelerate, decelerate, or ignore this certification of Quicksilver aircraft as gliders vs. airplanes. I for one see these as hang gliders that have simply added an engine to self-launch, much like your glider. I personally would like to see them welcomed to soaring. But without organizational encouragement from ASA and perhaps SSA, Quicksilver gliders will come into soaring in ones and twos, not in any significant numbers. In some European countries (maybe all), a self-launcher is NOT treated like a glider, but instead requires a license much like a power plane. I hope that never happens here, I hope it doesn't either. But I'm not willing to actively exclude a whole group of eager pilots to avoid this "maybe." ******I have changed a few words from Eric's post to make a point**** but I get very uneasy when I see such non-glider aircraft like the ASH-26E being considered "gliders". ******Changes end******* I wonder how the "pure glider" folks felt when the early "self-launch" gliders started appearing. I wonder if they had some of the same comments. In fact, isn't this kind of discrimination something we still face today, just a little more under the surface? Tell me, Eric, how does it feel when someone snickers at your "non-glider" ? If problems occur because of "motorgliders" of any sort (ultralight or powered sailplanes), it's easy to imagine that an FAA solution might be separating them from the glider category and treating them more like airplanes. That would be loss for everyone and sport. I think we've been lucky so far that powered sailplanes and touring motorgliders are still in the glider category. I wonder if the pure glider pilots wondered the same thing about the first motorgliders too? I like John's idea, but I don't think he had Quicksilvers in mind. They would not be able to soar around the course. To me, this not analogous to having snow boarders show up at the ski hill: it's more like ATVs showing up at the ski hill. If Quicksilver gliders are ATVs on the ski hill, then you are looking a little naked there on your ASH snowmobile. :O brrrrrrrr Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA I dunno where this is going to end up, but there is an opportunity here, that I am sure. Whether it is an opportunity the gliding community wants to take, hmmmmmm...., that's something clubs and airports across the country are going to have to decide a little at a time. To quote one local club President: "There will be no problem about the insured UL's landing at the field. The rule is as long as they are coming to participate in club activities they are welcome (that goes for any non-club aircraft)." -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd |
#10
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![]() John Shelton wrote: snippage A Sprint Race (invented by ME) involves a few aircraft starting in a cylinder at the same time (yes, i know the Euros are doing something similar now but I proposed it long before them), flying a short task (to quarter mile AST turnpoints) designed to last no more than an hour and a half, and finishing at a FINISH LINE in front of the gate/audience/crews. The time limit is important for several reasons; not the least of which is the boredom that exists back at the strip while you are out in your ship scratching around in two knots. Fellows: She isn't coming back out to help you ever again after you put her through that. But if she doesn't have to commit the family vacation and the entire lifestyle, gets to visit with other people who are excited about a race they are watching, then she just might. And with 30:1 ships, you just might need a crew again..... The ships and trailers will be painted in a variety of bright colors and covered with vinyl advertisements not unlike the vehicles of the most popular sport in America. If one wants to push it, then the production methods proposed by me for a televised race bought by Fox to be shown ten times could be employed. Lipstick cameras, camera ships, computer images (held to a minimum) and all that stuff could be used to create a venue that is watchable, exciting and inviting...especially when a young pilot crawls out of the winning ship to stand on the podium to collect his/her check and put his Red Bull cap on for the cameras to see. Gee, John. It sounds like you're volunteering to CD the 1-26 Championships. We already have "Soaring in full color". (Buy the T-shirt at the 1-26 site). It's not 30:1, but hey, put 'em in the Owens Valley in the summertime (so you have those spectacular Sierra views and booming lift), and nobody at home will know the difference. Not a laminar flow wing, so put all the sponsor stickers you can afford on 'em. A vinyl edge here and there won't hurt a thing but the gross weight. You can even mention that getting into competition with these things is cheaper than some hang gliders. (The ATOS VX is about 15 grand US, a good 1-26 is probably less than 10. That difference even pays for the instruction, for most people. Tim Ward |
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