report runway incursion non-towered airport?

Were other people on Unicom/CTAF? Was the cessna the exception?
Maybe your radio was tuned wrong? I doubt you want to play Mr. FAA but
if you have others with you on this, you might have a stronger case.

Whoa, pardner. I'm not the one talking about reporting this guy for a
runway incursion.

I've flown long enough to make dumb mistakes, too. I figure our
Citation-jockey was getting his IFR clearance, didn't see (or hear) me until
the last second (I couldn't see him with the setting sun), and that's that.

It could have been disastrous, but wasn't -- because the system ultimately
worked.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

You really should be scared of class D airports.

Totally agree. I'll take uncontrolled over non-radar Class Delta, any day.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:HJFUd.12332$r55.8014@attbi_s52...

You really should be scared of class D airports.


Totally agree. I'll take uncontrolled over non-radar Class Delta, any
day.


Do you think the problem is the tower, or the fact that they tend to have
more traffic?

Totally agree. I'll take uncontrolled over non-radar Class Delta, any
day.


Do you think the problem is the tower, or the fact that they tend to have
more traffic?

I think it's a combination of factors.

Mostly I think it's a problem with controllers who *think* they know where
the planes are, based on (often erroneous) pilot position reports, combined
with the limitations of what a guy can see with binoculars.

When you've got a guy directing traffic who has a faulty mental picture of
the traffic in the airspace -- often through no fault of his own -- you've
got a recipe for trouble.

And you often get it, in my experience.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I've observed at our local airport, when the local airport manager and
some flight instructors pointed it out, how the MD State Police and
Customs helicopters don't report positions when they fly past the airport.
They have these cynical statements like, "I'm still waiting for the day
when they call in their position . . ." and others.

I guess these "officials" are just too consumed with other stuff to
worry about GA pilots safety. Maybe they listen but just go about their
business.

Is this common in other places?

I was also watching a recent news report on getting a tower at FDK
in Maryland, and they referenced several "near misses" with State Police
helicopters - but it makes me think that it was the State Police
who didn't call their positions!
Maybe anecdotal evidence, but still!


Joe Johnson wrote:
Me: 240 hr PP-ASEL, minding my own business, doing touch & goes at an
untowered field, and scrupulously calling my position in every leg of the
pattern.

The offender: pilot of a small Citation jet.

I saw the Citation taxiing toward the active as I was downwind. I watched
the plane carefully (suspiciously) as there was never any transmission on
the CTAF frequency. I listened to departure on my second radio; he/she
wasn't on that frequency either. When I turned base, the Citation was at
the hold short line adjacent to the active threshold. As I was on 1/4 to
1/2 mile final, the Citation suddenly took the runway and started the
takeoff roll; nary a radio call was heard. Prepared for this, I did a 360,
landed, and got the tail number from an airport employee.

Should I report this to the FAA? If so, how? When in the course of an
aviation career does someone become so complacent that they don't say "boo"
before taking an active runway?

We all see lots of idiot drivers on the road. I used to think aviation was
different, both because the training is more rigorous and because the stakes
are so much higher. With all the idiotic and careless mistakes I read about
in NTSB accident reports, I'm beginning to wonder.

Thanks for reading--I'm a little less upset after having written this down.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:C8GUd.10700$Ze3.5911@attbi_s51...

I think it's a combination of factors.

Mostly I think it's a problem with controllers who *think* they know where
the planes are, based on (often erroneous) pilot position reports,
combined with the limitations of what a guy can see with binoculars.

When you've got a guy directing traffic who has a faulty mental picture of
the traffic in the airspace -- often through no fault of his own -- you've
got a recipe for trouble.


Agreed. If pilots reported their positions accurately the controller
wouldn't *think* he knew where they were. He'd know.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 02:06:46 GMT, "Joe Johnson"
wrote in : :

Should I report this to the FAA?

Perhaps.

There is a lot of room for error in aviation. You might just calk-up
the incident to experience, and attempt to learn as much as you can
from it by analyzing what occurred and discussing it as you are now.

If you feel that the pilot of the Citation deliberately committed an
unsafe act, and consider him a threat to himself and others, I would
recommend you talk to him directly as a first step. If it turns out
that his explanation of the incident appears unreasonable from your
point of view, consider discussing it with his employer next. Review
his Part 135 documents and see if the broadcasting of self announced
position/intention reports at uncontrolled airports are mentioned in
them. Do some research, and learn all the regulations and attitudes
that are in play.

If it becomes clear that you are dealing with renegade who defend
reckless operations, then it might be time to contact a FSDO
Inspector. Taking that option as a first response denies a fellow
airman an opportunity to redeem himself, and likely will leave an
indelible mark on his FAA record that you may later feel was
unjustified.

Isn't this what you would prefer a fellow airman would do if you
happened to be the offending pilot?

This is just my 2¢.

I'm flabbergasted at how many of these comments refer to not following
the radio procedures. Yes the Citation should have called, but most
important is that he didn't look.

In a previous article, "Joe Johnson" said:
"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
I was in the middle of announcing my turn to final
when a twin took the runway, so I ammended my call to say I was going to
do a right 270 for spacing. The pilot in the twin said "no, continue on
final, I'll be out of here in no time", so I did, and he was right.

Did the pilot take the runway unannounced?

I don't remember.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
`I was all fired up to write a big rant, but instead found apathy to be a
more worthwhile solution.' --- Ashley Penney

No, radio calls are not mandatory at uncontrolled fields. Obviously
though, the citation isn't a NORAD plane, and he should have been making
calls. Wrong freq sound like it.