A Scary Prospect -- What to do?

Actually, that's what I did with my kids when it came to driving. Our
daughter, who was the wild one in the family, was driving like a maniac and
wouldn't listen to anyone, including her brothers, about slowing down. I
eventually decided that if she wouldn't drive responsibly, at least I should
get her some real skills so that she was less likely to kill herself or
someone else. I took her up to Lime Rock Raceway and she took the Skip
Barber advanced driving course. All day learning how to spin out a car, get
maximum braking without ABS ("threshold braking"), getting absolutely
everything out of a car when you need it to get out of trouble, and how to
recover from unusual attitudes (like sideways on dry pavement). She had a
great time, and actually began to drive much more responsibly after that.
The best $500 I ever spent. I was so impressed I took both her brothers to
the same course. They have each said that the skills they learned have
enabled them to get out of really bad situations on several occasions.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Colin W Kingsbury" wrote in message
k.net...

Hey, here's another idea- find an aerobatic instructor who'll give him a
good workout in a Champ. You're never going to shut off the thrill-seeking
portion of his brain completely but you can try to provide a structured
outlet for it. It'll make a better airman of him and teach him what the
edges of the envelope really look like.

-cwk.

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 17:31:45 -0500, "Bob Chilcoat"
wrote:

I took her up to Lime Rock Raceway and she took the Skip
Barber advanced driving course.

I never had the money for such a course, but when I was a fresh faced
driver, I took the family wagon out one night during a slippery
snowstorm and practiced skids and skid recovery. It was instructive
to learn that when you stomp on the brakes and lock up the wheels,
steering input quits working. I would center myself on the road and
stomp on the brakes, then I discovered that I could (and did) spin the
steering wheel from lock to opposite lock with no change in direction
of the car. But if I lifted off the brakes while the wheel was locked
to one side, the car would instantly regain steering and lurch towards
the curb. Very instructive.

I was in no danger of hitting anything because I did not do this with
cars around and the streets were pretty wide and I did not need to go
very fast to skid. The lessons I learned that night have stayed with
me for 43 years. A locked up tire has no traction, nor can it be
steered. That's why ABS works, it prevents total lockup.

It was very smart of you to treat them to the Skip Barber course.

Corky Scott

Static friction vice dynamic friction

Corky Scott wrote:
I never had the money for such a course, but when I was a fresh faced
driver, I took the family wagon out one night during a slippery
snowstorm and practiced skids and skid recovery. It was instructive
to learn that when you stomp on the brakes and lock up the wheels,
steering input quits working. I would center myself on the road and
stomp on the brakes, then I discovered that I could (and did) spin the
steering wheel from lock to opposite lock with no change in direction
of the car. But if I lifted off the brakes while the wheel was locked
to one side, the car would instantly regain steering and lurch towards
the curb. Very instructive.
I was in no danger of hitting anything because I did not do this with
cars around and the streets were pretty wide and I did not need to go
very fast to skid. The lessons I learned that night have stayed with
me for 43 years. A locked up tire has no traction, nor can it be
steered. That's why ABS works, it prevents total lockup.
It was very smart of you to treat them to the Skip Barber course.

"Corky Scott" wrote

I never had the money for such a course, but when I was a fresh faced
driver, I took the family wagon out one night during a slippery
snowstorm and practiced skids and skid recovery.

My father did the same with me, and I did the same with my two children.
Some thing are difficult to learn, without those slippery parking lots.
--
Jim in NC

("Morgans" wrote)
I never had the money for such a course, but when I was a fresh faced
driver, I took the family wagon out one night during a slippery
snowstorm and practiced skids and skid recovery.

My father did the same with me, and I did the same with my two children.
Some thing are difficult to learn, without those slippery parking lots.


And two generations of teenage learners have omitted mentioning, to the
owner of the family car, the part about sliding sideways onto "the dry
patch." BTDT...


Montblack

And two generations of teenage learners have omitted mentioning, to the
owner of the family car, the part about sliding sideways onto "the dry
patch." BTDT...

Heh. I tore BOTH rear tires off the rims of my Mom's 1968 Pontiac LeMans by
sliding sideways onto a dry patch.

I put the spare tire on one side, threw the flat tire in the trunk, and
called my Dad to explain that "I've got a flat tire, and the spare is flat!"

It worked.

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Montblack wrote:

And two generations of teenage learners have omitted mentioning, to the
owner of the family car, the part about sliding sideways onto "the dry
patch." BTDT...

I never did that, but I did slide the VW into a curb. Several months later, it
started making "a noise" and my father took it in to the dealer. They discovered
a bent front axle. An *expensive* bent axle.

"No, Papa, I have no idea how that happened."

Those cars were amazingly easy to hotwire.

George Patterson
I prefer Heaven for climate but Hell for company.

"Montblack" wrote .


And two generations of teenage learners have omitted mentioning, to the
owner of the family car, the part about sliding sideways onto "the dry
patch." BTDT...


Montblack

I started driving a Corvair a couple years after I started driving. In my
beloved Pontiac, you could charge up to a turn, wail on the binders and
about slide around the corner, wet pavement, or no.

It didn't work that way with a Corvair. I charged up to a crossover
triangle on wet pavement, slammed on the brakes, turned the wheel and kept
going straight. Oops!. Blew a tire and bent the rim on the curb.

I managed to convince my dad that the tire went flat, and that's why I hit
the curb.

Moral of the story? On the rear engine cars, the front will break loose
before the rear end. Lesson learned!
--
Jim in NC

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 00:26:18 -0500, "Morgans"
wrote:

It didn't work that way with a Corvair. I charged up to a crossover
triangle on wet pavement, slammed on the brakes, turned the wheel and kept
going straight. Oops!. Blew a tire and bent the rim on the curb.

I managed to convince my dad that the tire went flat, and that's why I hit
the curb.

Moral of the story? On the rear engine cars, the front will break loose
before the rear end. Lesson learned!

Don't think the placement of the engine had anything to do with it,
it's more the type of brakes (drum or disc) and the amount of bias
they are given by the brake system. Typically, drums tend to lock up
more easily than discs and also are subject to fade, something most
disc brakes are relatively immune to. Since most of the braking
occurs at the front end due to weight transfer, the front brakes are
normally bigger and more capable of handling braking loads.

Normally the designers of the braking systems want the fronts to
lockup before the rears, because that is a more stable situation than
having the rears lockup first.

Corky Scott

"Corky Scott"


Don't think the placement of the engine had anything to do with it,
it's more the type of brakes (drum or disc) and the amount of bias
they are given by the brake system.

True, bias counts, but the 'vair was very light in the front.


Normally the designers of the braking systems want the fronts to
lockup before the rears, because that is a more stable situation than
having the rears lockup first.

Man, I would rather have the front still steering. Just me.
--
Jim in NC