Planning HPN to SAF

In article m, Tom Fleischman wrote:
I'm planning a trip for mid-May from WHite Plains, NY (KHPN) to Santa
Fe, NM (KSF). I'm wondering if anyone here has made a similar flight
and has any advice for me.

I did HPN-BFI (Seattle) last year. Single pilot, but with a
non-pilot passenger (my Highly Significant Other). No specifics
on your route, but perhaps a few insights anyway.

I will be single-pilot IFR, will be flying a Beech Debonair and am
planning to file for a TAS of 165kts at 10,000'. I've broken the route
up into three legs of approximately 3.5 to 4 hours each.

If you already know your route to that extent, you're already
overplanning things. The catchphase for my flight was, "Okay,
we need another plan". Fortunately, most of the time (but not
always), I was saying it on the ground. You need to check the
weather at each leg, and if the thunderstorms are to the North,
plan the route further South (and vice versa).

Make sure you have a full set of charts beyond what you think
you might need. We had one chart that covered the entire U.S.
which helped with our strategic planning every day.

Most of our trip there was IFR with a couple of VFR legs; the
return trip was mostly VFR with a couple of IFR legs.

Of the two inflight diversions, one was due to arriving at
the destination airport at the same time the thunderstorm
did. Rather than circle, we went to another nearby airport
that was clear. The other diversion was due to a failed
alternator (broken wire, fixed within the hour and we were
on our way).

4-hour legs will be taxing unless you have a cast-iron bladder.

Our first leg was 4 hours, HPN-AKR (Akron, OH), longer than
planned due to adverse winds. By the time we landed, we were
both feeling pretty beat up. Once I realized ground speed
wasn't as good as planned, I watched the revised ETA closely,
saw it was okay, and pressed on. In hindsight, if I had
diverted and took a break earlier, say around the 3-hour
mark, I probably would've been up for another leg and
perhaps would've been able to make better forward progress
that day.

We flew IFR that leg, but had to wait around a few hours before
leaving due to the fog that had HPN below minima. What we'd
intended for our lunch stop became the first overnight stop.

After that one, our legs were closer to 2.5 hours. There
were a couple of times I was glad to have the extra fuel
reserves. At one airport, there was a medical emergency
on a commuter plane. The approach controllers messed up what
had been a nice orderly sequence, and it took them about an
hour to sort things out.

I missed the approach into one airport on the way home because
about 10 things went wrong (most of which were compound interest
on my *mumble* mistakes) and they sent me to the back of the
line (which I richly deserved), which took an extra hour.

Flying into the Rockies (uhm, let me try to rephrase that)...
When we got to the Rockies, the plan was to go VFR and follow
the I-90. This allowed lower altitudes and provided
less-hostile terrain in the event of a forced landing.

Crossing the Cascades into Seattle, I had to go IFR. West
of the Cascades was VMC, but Seattle had its usual marine
layer. I took an airway that followed the I-90, decended
into the clouds around Snoqualmie Pass, and cancelled
once I got below the clouds.


I could fly lower for the first two legs, but the MEA after DHT on leg
3 requires 10,000'. I would like not to have to carry oxygen if I can
avoid it. Assuming decent weather is it ridiculous to think that this
trip can be made in one long day? I'm not at all adverse to stopping
for an overnight at OJC, but would like to try and do it in one day if
possible.

It sounds like a pretty long day, even if the weather is totally
cooperative. My trip averaged two legs totalling about 5 flight
hours per day. Even IFR capable, we spent quite a bit of time on
the ground waiting to see what the weather would do. Next time,
I'll try to average 3-leg days, which would mean less dawdling in
the morning and shorter lunch stops.


HTH,

Morris

In article , Journeyman
wrote:

In article m, Tom
Fleischman wrote:

snip

I will be single-pilot IFR, will be flying a Beech Debonair and am
planning to file for a TAS of 165kts at 10,000'. I've broken the route
up into three legs of approximately 3.5 to 4 hours each.

If you already know your route to that extent, you're already
overplanning things. The catchphase for my flight was, "Okay,
we need another plan". Fortunately, most of the time (but not
always), I was saying it on the ground. You need to check the
weather at each leg, and if the thunderstorms are to the North,
plan the route further South (and vice versa).

Make sure you have a full set of charts beyond what you think
you might need. We had one chart that covered the entire U.S.
which helped with our strategic planning every day.

Most of our trip there was IFR with a couple of VFR legs; the
return trip was mostly VFR with a couple of IFR legs.

Of the two inflight diversions, one was due to arriving at
the destination airport at the same time the thunderstorm
did. Rather than circle, we went to another nearby airport
that was clear. The other diversion was due to a failed
alternator (broken wire, fixed within the hour and we were
on our way).

4-hour legs will be taxing unless you have a cast-iron bladder.


snip

I could fly lower for the first two legs, but the MEA after DHT on leg
3 requires 10,000'. I would like not to have to carry oxygen if I can
avoid it. Assuming decent weather is it ridiculous to think that this
trip can be made in one long day? I'm not at all adverse to stopping
for an overnight at OJC, but would like to try and do it in one day if
possible.

It sounds like a pretty long day, even if the weather is totally
cooperative. My trip averaged two legs totalling about 5 flight
hours per day. Even IFR capable, we spent quite a bit of time on
the ground waiting to see what the weather would do. Next time,
I'll try to average 3-leg days, which would mean less dawdling in
the morning and shorter lunch stops.

I have already decided to break this trip into 2 days and plan shorter
legs on Day 1. Of course in planning any trip one has to understand
that it is only a plan and that things are undoubtedly going to change
enroute. But you have to start somewhere. The longest trip I've managed
before this was a 4:20 min non-stop trip to Milwaukee in my club's very
fast Bonanza, and you're right, a long leg like that is very taxing. So
I've got some different fuel stops in mind, going both a southerly
route and an northerly route, with no leg longer than 3 hours. This
should also allow me to arrive at the high terrain east of Santa Fe
fairly early in the day.

I don't consider this overplanning, I'll be flying out IFR and I've got
to file something, right? Besides, it's fun, it's interesting, and I'm
enjoying it. I've found airports with both cheap fuel and good food
reports that fit the bill and allow for diversion and flexibility.

I can't wait.

"Tom Fleischman" wrote in message
news:130320051206522311% I don't consider this overplanning, I'll be flying
out IFR and I've got
to file something, right? Besides, it's fun, it's interesting, and I'm
enjoying it. I've found airports with both cheap fuel and good food
reports that fit the bill and allow for diversion and flexibility.

I can't wait.

The other I found was that the quality of the headset makes one hell of a
difference as far as fatigue is concerned. NR is great but not at the
expense of having your head in a vice for 4 hours at a time. Seriously the
noise can be tiring too.

In article m, Tom Fleischman wrote:

I have already decided to break this trip into 2 days and plan shorter
legs on Day 1. Of course in planning any trip one has to understand
that it is only a plan and that things are undoubtedly going to change
enroute. But you have to start somewhere. The longest trip I've managed
before this was a 4:20 min non-stop trip to Milwaukee in my club's very
fast Bonanza, and you're right, a long leg like that is very taxing. So
I've got some different fuel stops in mind, going both a southerly
route and an northerly route, with no leg longer than 3 hours. This
should also allow me to arrive at the high terrain east of Santa Fe
fairly early in the day.

I don't consider this overplanning, I'll be flying out IFR and I've got
to file something, right? Besides, it's fun, it's interesting, and I'm
enjoying it. I've found airports with both cheap fuel and good food
reports that fit the bill and allow for diversion and flexibility.

I can't wait.

It's an awesome experience, highly recommended. Don't forget to post
your trip report when you get back. :-)

Sounds like you have the right idea. My impression from your initial
post that your planning was much more narrowly focussed (i.e. this leg
at that altitude). Now that's overplanning.


Morris

Tom Fleischman wrote:
route and an northerly route, with no leg longer than 3 hours. This
should also allow me to arrive at the high terrain east of Santa Fe
fairly early in the day.

High terrain can be overflown at 8500 ft VFR with no problems based
on your plan of LVS-TAFOY-SAF.

I do it frequently.

But then, living in Colorado, 8500 is the lower limit of my
regular cruising altitude.

Call me from HUT, I'll meet you in LVS and you can follow me. I'll
be in the white & green cherokee.

(*evil laugh*)

Blanche writes:
Tom Fleischman wrote:
route and an northerly route, with no leg longer than 3 hours. This
should also allow me to arrive at the high terrain east of Santa Fe
fairly early in the day.

High terrain can be overflown at 8500 ft VFR with no problems based
on your plan of LVS-TAFOY-SAF.

I do it frequently.

But then, living in Colorado, 8500 is the lower limit of my
regular cruising altitude.

Call me from HUT, I'll meet you in LVS and you can follow me. I'll
be in the white & green cherokee.

(*evil laugh*)

A new aviation service: local native guide to lead the turista
through the jungle!

Everett M. Greene wrote:
Blanche writes:
Tom Fleischman wrote:
route and an northerly route, with no leg longer than 3 hours. This
should also allow me to arrive at the high terrain east of Santa Fe
fairly early in the day.

[some stuff that we've all read snipped]

Call me from HUT, I'll meet you in LVS and you can follow me. I'll
be in the white & green cherokee.

(*evil laugh*)

A new aviation service: local native guide to lead the turista
through the jungle!

Of course! I'll take Dove dark chocolate anyday! I'm not exactly
cheap, but I am cost-effective...

Tom Fleischman wrote:

I don't consider this overplanning, I'll be flying out IFR and I've got
to file something, right? Besides, it's fun, it's interesting, and I'm
enjoying it. I've found airports with both cheap fuel and good food
reports that fit the bill and allow for diversion and flexibility.

I can't wait.

It's not overplanning at all. And, splitting it into two days will make it a
whole lot more enjoyable. In one day that third leg into SAF would be
bothersome, perhaps even a bit irriating. But, fresh the second morning it
will be a delight. Plus, given decent weather a morning flight westbound over
the mountains into SAF is a lot prettier than in the afternoon.

Journeyman wrote:
If you already know your route to that extent, you're already
overplanning things. The catchphase for my flight was, "Okay,
we need another plan".

But, much better to have a plan that you discover you need to discard than
to not have any plan at all.