Presidential Helicopter

"Helowriter" wrote in news:1110978868.256502.231550
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

Yep, that's what Assistant Secretary Young said. But what's the risk of
totally redesigning the EH101 structure to meet modern crash strength
requirements? What's the risk of setting up a Presidential
manufacturing and support mechanism offshore? If they both needed
rotor and drivetrain changes, the risk is in air vehicle development,
and I think they minimized the risk for Lockheed Martin. Take a look
at the BBC picture of the Merlin flattened after a crash from a 20 ft
hover and ask yourself where the risk is.

HW

And that demonstrates how little faith there is in Sikorsky's ability. The
Mil. has been burned enough by Sikorsky over-spends.

They're voting with their feet for a solution that they think is less risky
in the hands of a supplier they think can meet time and budget
constraints...

Time will tell if the analysis on this is correct.

The USA vs non-USA is just a distraction Sikorsky thought up to try and win
despite their project management deficiencies.

toad.

The Merlin in the UK was delivered five years late and 1.6 billion
pounds over budget, and Lockheed Martin was the systems integrator.
If we're to believe recent news, the F-22 and JSF are way, way, way
over budget with no end in sight. Oh, the phrase "cost overrun" was
actually coined for a Lockheed program -- the C-5 Galaxy.

The USA "distraction" questions whether it is wise to move some of the
most highly secure work long done by specially cleared US citizens to
Italy and the UK.

Sikorsky has delivered Black Hawks to the US miltary on schedule and in
budget for successive multi-year contracts. Lockheed Martin has not
designed and built a helicopter since the Cheyenne in 1969.

If choosing Lockheed Martin is the military voting with their feet,
they're going to need time to get their feet out of their mouths.

HW

The hypocricy with Sikorsky waving the American flag in their failed
attempt to win the Presidential Helicopter contract was that the
comercial production S-92 fuselage is to be assembled largely in China.
That is why Sikorsky needed to get Vought on contract to assemble the
Presidential version proposal. I admire Sikorskys products. But their
marketing turned my stomach.

Stabilize your stomach and remember Lockheed Martin is the one who so
subtly changed the designation of their helicopter from EH101 to US101.


LM was also a lot more aggressive about using politicians -- Senators
Schumer, Hillary, et al -- to campaign for their aircraft. The New
York Congressional delegation admits it lobbied intensively -- as did
the Italian government -- for the EH101.

Point is, S-92 design authority -- the expertise and legal authority to
make changes -- remains in the US. EH101 design authority on the US101
apparently remains in Italy. Sikorsky pulled sheet metal and composite
work back into Vought because Presidential helo work has long been
performed exclusively in secure facilities by US citizens. Lockheed
Martin is going to have gears, flightcontrols, etc made offshore. That
discards 40-odd years of rigid security requirements just to buy a less
safe aircraft.

Oh, the commercial S-92 fuselage is made in Japan. The tail fin comes
from China.

HW

Helowriter wrote:
Stabilize your stomach and remember Lockheed Martin is the one who so
subtly changed the designation of their helicopter from EH101 to
US101.


LM was also a lot more aggressive about using politicians -- Senators
Schumer, Hillary, et al -- to campaign for their aircraft. The New
York Congressional delegation admits it lobbied intensively -- as did
the Italian government -- for the EH101.

Point is, S-92 design authority -- the expertise and legal authority
to
make changes -- remains in the US. EH101 design authority on the
US101
apparently remains in Italy. Sikorsky pulled sheet metal and
composite
work back into Vought because Presidential helo work has long been
performed exclusively in secure facilities by US citizens. Lockheed
Martin is going to have gears, flightcontrols, etc made offshore.
That
discards 40-odd years of rigid security requirements just to buy a
less
safe aircraft.

Oh, the commercial S-92 fuselage is made in Japan. The tail fin
comes
from China.

HW

....and the dynamic components are made in-house (blades...drive
train...)..where they should be!..(I'm sure this isn't over..Stay
tuned!)

~Rich

HW Thank you for the correction. I should have said "Asia" builds the
S-92 commercial fuselage. But remenber Sikorsky proclaimed themselves
to be the "All American Team". They are only all American however when
it suits their bottom line. If they cared so much for the welfare of
the American aerospace work force, they would have kept the commercial
S-92 work in the US also.

For the on going Army ARH RFP, Sikorsky was originally proposing a
modification of a foreign made helicopter. Again, bottom line.

CTR

CTR wrote:
HW Thank you for the correction. I should have said "Asia" builds
the
S-92 commercial fuselage. But remenber Sikorsky proclaimed
themselves
to be the "All American Team". They are only all American however
when
it suits their bottom line. If they cared so much for the welfare of
the American aerospace work force, they would have kept the
commercial
S-92 work in the US also.

For the on going Army ARH RFP, Sikorsky was originally proposing a
modification of a foreign made helicopter. Again, bottom line.

CTR

When and where did they proclaim to be an "All American Team"? They
haven't done anything that most if not all other aerospace
manufacturers have done around the world..Outsource to defray and
reduce costs. They probably weren't the first and they are definitely
not the only company.... and..what "foreign made" helicopter were you
referring to...just curious?.
...and none of these companies are charities..they all care about the
bottom line...

~R

The All-American Team was important because the Government had long
insisted Presidential helo work be done in a secure manufacturing
environment crewed only by US citizens. VXX is also the helicopter for
the President of the United States, and that has some symbolic value.
All that, and concerns about crashworthiness and operating costs, went
out the window as payback to Berlusconi and Blair for their support in
OIF.

Don't take too much comfort in how Lockheed Martin values the American
aerospace worker -- they just won the Army Airborne Common Sensor
program with a Brazilian platform. The LM idea seems to be the
platform doesn't matter - it's the software that counts. Until, of
course, the Presidential platform flattens like a Merlin.

Oh, when the Comanche was cancelled, the undersecretary of the Army
admitted everyone on the contractor side had done just what had been
asked of them. The Army could never get its act, and its requirements
together.

As to Agusta Westland -- WG30.

HW

HW

On the back cover of the Winter 2004 Vertiflite issue is a full page
Sikorsky ad proclaiming "The All-American Sikorsky S-92...."

Again, it's Sikorsky's hypocricy that has the foul odor, not their
product.


The ARH is to be awarded this June. Ask me again then.

Have fun,

CTR

On the back cover of the Winter 2004 Vertiflite issue is a full page
Sikorsky ad proclaiming "The All-American Sikorsky S-92...."

Again, it's Sikorsky's hypocricy that has the foul odor, not their
product.


The ARH is to be awarded this June. Ask me again then.

Have fun,

CTR