Presidential Helicopter

Stabilize your stomach and remember Lockheed Martin is the one who so
subtly changed the designation of their helicopter from EH101 to US101.


LM was also a lot more aggressive about using politicians -- Senators
Schumer, Hillary, et al -- to campaign for their aircraft. The New
York Congressional delegation admits it lobbied intensively -- as did
the Italian government -- for the EH101.

Point is, S-92 design authority -- the expertise and legal authority to
make changes -- remains in the US. EH101 design authority on the US101
apparently remains in Italy. Sikorsky pulled sheet metal and composite
work back into Vought because Presidential helo work has long been
performed exclusively in secure facilities by US citizens. Lockheed
Martin is going to have gears, flightcontrols, etc made offshore. That
discards 40-odd years of rigid security requirements just to buy a less
safe aircraft.

Oh, the commercial S-92 fuselage is made in Japan. The tail fin comes
from China.

HW

Helowriter wrote:
Stabilize your stomach and remember Lockheed Martin is the one who so
subtly changed the designation of their helicopter from EH101 to
US101.


LM was also a lot more aggressive about using politicians -- Senators
Schumer, Hillary, et al -- to campaign for their aircraft. The New
York Congressional delegation admits it lobbied intensively -- as did
the Italian government -- for the EH101.

Point is, S-92 design authority -- the expertise and legal authority
to
make changes -- remains in the US. EH101 design authority on the
US101
apparently remains in Italy. Sikorsky pulled sheet metal and
composite
work back into Vought because Presidential helo work has long been
performed exclusively in secure facilities by US citizens. Lockheed
Martin is going to have gears, flightcontrols, etc made offshore.
That
discards 40-odd years of rigid security requirements just to buy a
less
safe aircraft.

Oh, the commercial S-92 fuselage is made in Japan. The tail fin
comes
from China.

HW

....and the dynamic components are made in-house (blades...drive
train...)..where they should be!..(I'm sure this isn't over..Stay
tuned!)

~Rich

HW Thank you for the correction. I should have said "Asia" builds the
S-92 commercial fuselage. But remenber Sikorsky proclaimed themselves
to be the "All American Team". They are only all American however when
it suits their bottom line. If they cared so much for the welfare of
the American aerospace work force, they would have kept the commercial
S-92 work in the US also.

For the on going Army ARH RFP, Sikorsky was originally proposing a
modification of a foreign made helicopter. Again, bottom line.

CTR

CTR wrote:
HW Thank you for the correction. I should have said "Asia" builds
the
S-92 commercial fuselage. But remenber Sikorsky proclaimed
themselves
to be the "All American Team". They are only all American however
when
it suits their bottom line. If they cared so much for the welfare of
the American aerospace work force, they would have kept the
commercial
S-92 work in the US also.

For the on going Army ARH RFP, Sikorsky was originally proposing a
modification of a foreign made helicopter. Again, bottom line.

CTR

When and where did they proclaim to be an "All American Team"? They
haven't done anything that most if not all other aerospace
manufacturers have done around the world..Outsource to defray and
reduce costs. They probably weren't the first and they are definitely
not the only company.... and..what "foreign made" helicopter were you
referring to...just curious?.
...and none of these companies are charities..they all care about the
bottom line...

~R

The All-American Team was important because the Government had long
insisted Presidential helo work be done in a secure manufacturing
environment crewed only by US citizens. VXX is also the helicopter for
the President of the United States, and that has some symbolic value.
All that, and concerns about crashworthiness and operating costs, went
out the window as payback to Berlusconi and Blair for their support in
OIF.

Don't take too much comfort in how Lockheed Martin values the American
aerospace worker -- they just won the Army Airborne Common Sensor
program with a Brazilian platform. The LM idea seems to be the
platform doesn't matter - it's the software that counts. Until, of
course, the Presidential platform flattens like a Merlin.

Oh, when the Comanche was cancelled, the undersecretary of the Army
admitted everyone on the contractor side had done just what had been
asked of them. The Army could never get its act, and its requirements
together.

As to Agusta Westland -- WG30.

HW

HW

On the back cover of the Winter 2004 Vertiflite issue is a full page
Sikorsky ad proclaiming "The All-American Sikorsky S-92...."

Again, it's Sikorsky's hypocricy that has the foul odor, not their
product.


The ARH is to be awarded this June. Ask me again then.

Have fun,

CTR

On the back cover of the Winter 2004 Vertiflite issue is a full page
Sikorsky ad proclaiming "The All-American Sikorsky S-92...."

Again, it's Sikorsky's hypocricy that has the foul odor, not their
product.


The ARH is to be awarded this June. Ask me again then.

Have fun,

CTR

CTR wrote:
On the back cover of the Winter 2004 Vertiflite issue is a full page
Sikorsky ad proclaiming "The All-American Sikorsky S-92...."

Again, it's Sikorsky's hypocricy that has the foul odor, not their
product.


The ARH is to be awarded this June. Ask me again then.

Have fun,

CTR


...call it hipocricy if you want....the foul odor smells like sour
grapes to me...disgruntled former employee maybe?...I see nothing wrong
with the ad...it is All American...all the risks were taken here in the
states...design, testing...flight testing...anything and everything up
to production launch....we might as well rip up the Chevy truck
commercials...I guarantee you there's quite a few foreign made parts
under the hood..and thats got All American written all over it...I
don't think there is a major corp. in the world that hasn't leveraged
marketing in it's best interests...

..........still wondering what the "foreign made Helicopter" was
....interesting comment..

Nope, never worked for Igor's company. Have admired their products
however. Worked in Aerospace for 25 years for most major airframers,
never layed off or fired. Still even exchange Christmas cards with all
my old bosses. The strength of Americas aerospace industry is in its
workers. Not the CEOs.

All the risks? Certainly not financial. Both Japan and China bought
into their contracts.

I am not saying Lockheed or the US101 is any better than Sikorsky or
the S-92. But people need to wake up and realize that the day any
aerospace CEO honestly cares about American jobs and technology is
over. I really wish I could have met some of the men fifty years ago
who did care like Larry Bell, Igor Sikorsky and John McDonnell.

By the way, I attended a conference two years ago where Curt Weldon
spoke concerning the Commanche. He said that if Sikorsky and Boeing
didn't straighten up their act, there was nothing he could do to keep
them from being canceled.

Have fun,

CTR

Oh Good Grief, I've sat through enough Curt Weldon speeches to know he
doesn't understand a lot of what he talks about. Comanche was cancelled
because the Army changed its mind. The Army validated a Cold War
requirement for more than 10 years after the Cold War, then dropped it
to fund immediate Aviation needs in OIF. Boeing and Sikorsky gave them
what they asked for.

The strength of American aerospace is in its workers -- not just the
Union guys on assembly lines, but the engineers, program managers, test
technicians, etc. That's why you don't want the design authority on
helicopters to reside offshore.

Bell seems happy to be the LM build-to-print shop for European
helicopters. LM recommended the AB139 to replace the Jayhawk in the
Coast Guard, and they'll pitch the US101 for the Air Force rescue
requirement and other contracts. That gives you assembly jobs in Texas
and software jobs in New York, but it leaves the core engineering work
off-shore. That hurts US competitiveness.

Sikorsky made safety innovations in the H-92 way beyond what was
available when the EH101 was designed. It brought in international
partners to reduce the cost of the project and to get footholds in a
perceived market. The core engineering stayed in the US, and that's
what we need to be competitive.

HW