Phantom flight

Hi John,
I guess my "hi dip" remark wasn't quite that. In the days of paddles,
the LSO would give you a high dip signal and expect you to just drop
the nose a hair and then return to level. This just worked off about
ten feet or so from your flat groove altitude. In the F-8 if I wanted
to get aboard without chancing a hook skip or a BAR (flat at the ramp)
bolter I'd pull up the nose a hair just before touchdown to set the
hook. As long as you weren't fast this tecnique kept you from a flat
bounce and usually got you a one wire. On a really dark night if the
deck was moving I had to depend upon the LSO to tell me when to go for
it, like, "OK, fly it on down". Landing an F-8 on a black night with
the deck moving was high risk no matter how you did it. I always
calculated, the fewer passes over the ramp per night, the better chance
I'd make it down to the ready room dry.

Back to the Phantom and using two hands for max G's. Figure of speech,
please forgive. Yes you could usually get max G with one hand.
Getting 9 G's (max) below ten grand at 600 kts took me both hands. But
I was a weak-assed pilot who was used to pulling an F-8 around with
half the effort. Agree, a savvy F-4 pilot could whip an F-8 everywhere
but prior to 1968 the number of ACM savvy F-4 pilots was low. Later
F-8's, like the F8J, were dogs and the F-4 guys routinely beat up on
them.

We had a couple of guys who went through an entire cruise (100-120
traps) without a bolter in the F-4. I had two of my three F-4 cruises
bolterless, not all greenies but bolterless. Wire average probably
around two. Different strokes...........

Sorry if I offended the USAF guys. What I meant to say, was carrier
pilots were used to landing at slower speeds and felt comfortable
dirty. We spent more time with a donut than any blue suiter given all
the FCLP's and constant speed approach patterns. Not necessarily
better, just different. I spent time with a number of USAF exchange
guys and they caught on just fine to our different way of doing things.

"Bob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi John,
I guess my "hi dip" remark wasn't quite that. In the days of paddles,
the LSO would give you a high dip signal and expect you to just drop
the nose a hair and then return to level. This just worked off about
ten feet or so from your flat groove altitude. In the F-8 if I wanted
to get aboard without chancing a hook skip or a BAR (flat at the ramp)
bolter I'd pull up the nose a hair just before touchdown to set the
hook. As long as you weren't fast this tecnique kept you from a flat
bounce and usually got you a one wire. On a really dark night if the
deck was moving I had to depend upon the LSO to tell me when to go for
it, like, "OK, fly it on down". Landing an F-8 on a black night with
the deck moving was high risk no matter how you did it. I always
calculated, the fewer passes over the ramp per night, the better chance
I'd make it down to the ready room dry.

Perhaps the best way to communicate "go for it" is "Fly the ball." A little
nose up could scoop up an early wire, but of course a little too much could
ding a tail pipe and maybe even permanently damage the nozzle. By
comparison, the F-14 could REALLY troll for a wire. More than a few bolters
were saved by a bit of attitude in the wires ... certainly a varsity
correction.

During my initial F-14 CQ I decided to learn to take auto throttles all the
way to touchdown. A nose-up at the ramp (to get the power up for the
burble) invariably resulted in a one on the fly. Took a while to master the
"jiggle the stick a bit" to get the stab input to bump the power w/o
changing the attitude of the jet.
..
Back to the Phantom and using two hands for max G's. Figure of speech,
please forgive. Yes you could usually get max G with one hand.
Getting 9 G's (max) below ten grand at 600 kts took me both hands. But
I was a weak-assed pilot who was used to pulling an F-8 around with
half the effort. Agree, a savvy F-4 pilot could whip an F-8 everywhere
but prior to 1968 the number of ACM savvy F-4 pilots was low. Later
F-8's, like the F8J, were dogs and the F-4 guys routinely beat up on
them.

The J wasn't too bad with the P-420 engine (19,500 in A/B). We were never
"routinely beat up on" in it, though I tapped a couple of the better Phantom
drivers that WERE beating up on me. The J still couldn't match the D (never
got to fly it, but it was light, had the lighter nose and the P-20 engine).
The P-420 H was the hot rod.

R / John

We had a couple of guys who went through an entire cruise (100-120
traps) without a bolter in the F-4. I had two of my three F-4 cruises
bolterless, not all greenies but bolterless. Wire average probably
around two. Different strokes...........

.... Not all greenies. I can relate. My first cruise, the air wing average
was 3.06 (I was an LSO until they found out my parents were married to each
other). Nowadays, it's around 3.5, almost exactly what CVW-19's top hook
(one of the best ball flyers I've EVER seen) had for the cruise. Another
trend is to the 1/2 ball high pass as "centered." There are several
generations of LSO's now that will grade you as LOBAW for a genuine rails
pass. A pity.

R / John

John Carrier wrote:



Perhaps the best way to communicate "go for it" is "Fly the ball." A little
nose up could scoop up an early wire, but of course a little too much could
ding a tail pipe and maybe even permanently damage the nozzle. By
comparison, the F-14 could REALLY troll for a wire. More than a few bolters
were saved by a bit of attitude in the wires ... certainly a varsity
correction.


I got way to used to 'nose up, add a little power, down DLC' over the ramp.

Never had a day time bolter, got a lot of early wires tho..
.

Back to the Phantom and using two hands for max G's. Figure of speech,
please forgive. Yes you could usually get max G with one hand.
Getting 9 G's (max) below ten grand at 600 kts took me both hands. But
I was a weak-assed pilot who was used to pulling an F-8 around with
half the effort. Agree, a savvy F-4 pilot could whip an F-8 everywhere
but prior to 1968 the number of ACM savvy F-4 pilots was low. Later
F-8's, like the F8J, were dogs and the F-4 guys routinely beat up on
them.


The J wasn't too bad with the P-420 engine (19,500 in A/B). We were never
"routinely beat up on" in it, though I tapped a couple of the better Phantom
drivers that WERE beating up on me. The J still couldn't match the D (never
got to fly it, but it was light, had the lighter nose and the P-20 engine).
The P-420 H was the hot rod.

R / John


We had a couple of guys who went through an entire cruise (100-120
traps) without a bolter in the F-4. I had two of my three F-4 cruises
bolterless, not all greenies but bolterless. Wire average probably
around two. Different strokes...........


... Not all greenies. I can relate. My first cruise, the air wing average
was 3.06 (I was an LSO until they found out my parents were married to each
other). Nowadays, it's around 3.5, almost exactly what CVW-19's top hook
(one of the best ball flyers I've EVER seen) had for the cruise. Another
trend is to the 1/2 ball high pass as "centered." There are several
generations of LSO's now that will grade you as LOBAW for a genuine rails
pass. A pity.

R / John

Bob wrote:
Getting 9 G's (max) below ten grand at 600 kts took me both hands. But
I was a weak-assed pilot snip excuse

You jet guys are all weak-assed pilots. Ever watch an E-2 in the break?
Snaps those 80' wingspan blades right to 90 degrees, vapes off the tips.
Let me tell you...while that happens out the outside, in the cockpit
you're steer wrestling.

You see, you basically have to unstrap from the seat, grab the yoke
under the right armpit with both hands holding the left horn, like
you're getting ready to toss down a baby heifer. At the numbers, you
bend forward at the waist and shift your grip to push up on the right
while pulling down on the left, which might require you to stick your
left boot against the side bubble to get decent leverage. Once you've
rolled, put the right boot on the instrument panel (don't bust any of
the steam guages) and haul back. If you can free up a hand, grab the
ditching handle and give your Null-P copilot a smack on the head to
remind him to throw in a bootful of rudder into the turn, else you end
up flying the ball sideways.

Now that's a break.

LOL...this might be the best description ever.