Tow Costs

BTIZ wrote:

$500 at the door.. and $450/yr to stay with no rental fees.
So you're paying $450 to fly whether you fly or not.. the low time flyers
are subsidizing the high time flyers..

The eternal discussion. The opposite point of view ist that a glider's
value doesn't depend on flight time, it looses value each year whether
it is flown or not. So, with hourly rates, the high timers subsidy the
low timers. In many groups, this problem is permanently discussed.

Back to the topic: We pay about $4.40 per tow minute on a 180 hp Husky
(airborne time of the tow plane counts). With this rate, after deducting
all costs, we make a little profit for the club.

Stefan

The eternal discussion.

Agreed

Back to the topic: We pay about $4.40 per tow minute on a 180 hp Husky
(airborne time of the tow plane counts). With this rate, after deducting
all costs, we make a little profit for the club.
Stefan

4.40 per minute = $264 per hour
on an average of 4-5 tows per hour on a busy day,
that's 264/5 = 52 per average tow...

no wonder you're making money.

On the other hand, most of OUR tows are about 500fpm, so a 2K tow would take
4 minutes or about $17.60.. of course that does not count for time spent in
sink or rotor on a strong day.. with zero rate of climb on tow (tow pilot
turning back to the thermal or ridge lift). And then the airplane has to
return, we can get our tow on the ground from a 2K tow in 1:30 to 2 min,
providing now one else is in the traffic pattern.

Your 180HP Husky burns just a tad less fuel than a 235HP IO540.

So we are about the same..

BT

BTIZ wrote:

4.40 per minute = $264 per hour

Face it, that's what it costs to operate an airplane in Europe. We
charter the same plane for 180 an hour, and brake more or less even with
that. (I think we calculate our costs at 150 an hour, but I'm not sure.
Of course, we're calculating the full cost of operation.)

on an average of 4-5 tows per hour on a busy day,
that's 264/5 = 52 per average tow...

Wrong calculation. An average tow lasts about 5 to 7 minutes on our
field with average weather. When we have to tow further away, it gets
expensive.

no wonder you're making money.

Well, we're making money in our own pockets. Same discussion as above:
Somehow we must pay for our modern fleet. (Two LS8s, two LS7s, three
LS4s, two double seaters... with no hourly fees.)

Your 180HP Husky burns just a tad less fuel than a 235HP IO540.

But at approximately four times the price.

Stefan

that explains it.. Europe$$.. and I fear we are quickly heading that
way..... your tow might last 5-7 minutes.. are you counting the return time?

our average tow in good weather is about 2K AGL, at 500fpm climb rate,
that's about 4 minutes.. plus the time to get back (2 min ?).. then the turn
time getting the next glider staged and rolling, we operate off a paved
runway, cannot stage gliders side by side and ready to roll.. some
experienced pilots will stage from the side of the run way and get pulled
out by the tow. Avgr.. 4-5 tows per hour.. that's 12-15 min turn times

BT

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
BTIZ wrote:

4.40 per minute = $264 per hour

Face it, that's what it costs to operate an airplane in Europe. We charter
the same plane for 180 an hour, and brake more or less even with that. (I
think we calculate our costs at 150 an hour, but I'm not sure. Of course,
we're calculating the full cost of operation.)

on an average of 4-5 tows per hour on a busy day,
that's 264/5 = 52 per average tow...

Wrong calculation. An average tow lasts about 5 to 7 minutes on our field
with average weather. When we have to tow further away, it gets expensive.

no wonder you're making money.

Well, we're making money in our own pockets. Same discussion as above:
Somehow we must pay for our modern fleet. (Two LS8s, two LS7s, three LS4s,
two double seaters... with no hourly fees.)

Your 180HP Husky burns just a tad less fuel than a 235HP IO540.

But at approximately four times the price.

Stefan

BTIZ wrote:

way..... your tow might last 5-7 minutes.. are you counting the return time?

We pay airborne time of the tug (take off to touch down). Another
eternal discussion: So the cost of the tow depends on the tug pilot?
Yes, it does. And the glider pilot pays for a go around? Yes, he does.
We believe that it averages out over a season.

our average tow in good weather is about 2K AGL, at 500fpm climb rate,
that's about 4 minutes.. plus the time to get back (2 min ?).. then

Yes, that's about it. The glider pilot usually releases somewhere
between 2k and 3k AGL. Depends on the weather, of course. (The shortest
tow I've ever made was 3 minutes! Released at 1000 ft. But this was an
exceptionally good day.)

Unfortuately, our geografic situation is such that we cannot reliably
find lift from the winch. This would make flying considerably cheaper.
(And more fun! Hell, I do love those winch launches!)

Stefan