Does USA need a Club Class?

Can't argue with any of that, Tim, but where are you going to draw the
line? The V1's and 20's are still quite potent machines. How about the
Genesis, its out of production. I do like your proposal to only allow
real sports pilots to compete, but then it wouldn't be all that hard to
log a sports regionals every 3 years just to keep ones options open.
What I see is a lot of local pilots will fly sports nats when they are
close and the other nationals when they are close. That's what I do and
kind-a like it that way.

JJ


Obviously the rules committee could have "some" hand in this...and of course
they would have, but it've pretty obvious to anyone who watches the results
what gliders are competing in the FAI classes and which ones are no longer
showing up there....
It was justa very few seasons ago when the 15M class was filled with
ASW20's, LS6's and Ventus........but look now....if you see even one or 2
there it's a suprise......so where are they now??? sitting at a club when
the contest is nearby?? that's actually the point...in part )
as for flyinga regional to fly a national.that seems a no brainer to
me.....and many others
tim

Just checked the entry list for Parowan, Tim's idea would eliminate 50
pilots out of the 74 that wish to fly the sports nationals this year.
Is this what we want? Sports class has been very successful because you
come to the contest with what you have, your ship and your talents.
Over the years there has been suggestions to not allow pilots with
diamond badges or not allow certain ships. Let's leave it alone, it's
working real fine.
Haven't we plowed this ground before?
JJ

not necessarily.......it may just mean that the 50 you eliminated will be
replaced with the 50 who don't waste their time and money to be fodder for
the 50 with the latest and greatest ships....
and...maybe the 50 you might eliminate will still participate, but in a true
"club (Sports) class ship..... The Europeans sure seem to be able to fill
these classes with "club class" gliders......heck, I've even offered to loan
out gliders myself for the sports class contests....JJ, I even offered one
to you when the Sports class nationals were in Elmira.....remember?
tim

wrote in message
oups.com...
Just checked the entry list for Parowan, Tim's idea would eliminate 50
pilots out of the 74 that wish to fly the sports nationals this year.
Is this what we want? Sports class has been very successful because you
come to the contest with what you have, your ship and your talents.
Over the years there has been suggestions to not allow pilots with
diamond badges or not allow certain ships. Let's leave it alone, it's
working real fine.
Haven't we plowed this ground before?
JJ

I have considered entering "Sports Class" contests with my HP-14; however,
it seems like a useless effort considering the ships which I would be
competing against.

Yes, I know that entering would make me a better pilot; however, any week
dedicated to flying with other good pilots will do that.


"Tim Mara" wrote in message
...
not necessarily.......it may just mean that the 50 you eliminated will be
replaced with the 50 who don't waste their time and money to be fodder for
the 50 with the latest and greatest ships....
and...maybe the 50 you might eliminate will still participate, but in a
true
"club (Sports) class ship..... The Europeans sure seem to be able to fill
these classes with "club class" gliders......heck, I've even offered to
loan
out gliders myself for the sports class contests....JJ, I even offered one
to you when the Sports class nationals were in Elmira.....remember?
tim

wrote in message
oups.com...
Just checked the entry list for Parowan, Tim's idea would eliminate 50
pilots out of the 74 that wish to fly the sports nationals this year.
Is this what we want? Sports class has been very successful because you
come to the contest with what you have, your ship and your talents.
Over the years there has been suggestions to not allow pilots with
diamond badges or not allow certain ships. Let's leave it alone, it's
working real fine.
Haven't we plowed this ground before?
JJ

You make one of my main points perfectly.

If we want to EDUCATE new, aspiring racing pilots, Sports Class is
terrific. Go ahead and hang your shingle out there - Even in an HP-14 -
which by the way was my first ship. You will learn more about flying
for performance and glider handling in one week of oragnized contest
flying than you will in many, many years of flying around the patch or
with friends, even if you are at the bottom of the score sheet.

If we want to teach new, aspiring racing pilots how to COMPETE and RACE
FOR A WIN, then Sports Class fails. You can only learn to compete and
race when you are in situations of rough equality - pilot skill and
equipment. Sports Class handicaps do not offer that rough equality to a
broad enough range of older gliders at present.

If aspiring Club Class pilots and those owning Club Class gliders think
the Sports Class handicaps are going to come to them are dreaming.
When the base-line Sports Class ship at your average Sports Nats
becomes a V2 - who do think will suffer when it comes time to "tweak"
the handicaps for better competition?

Keep the faith, if you really love to compete, take you HP to a sports
class contest and learn the skills for competing and soak in the
ambience; then, if you really are hooked on racing gliders to win, join
the bandwagon to get a class that encompasses the older, increasingly
dispossessed ships -we could use the support.

Tim McAllister "EY"
Std. Libelle

Tim......well said, and you should all take note that Tim recently won
Sports Nationals in a true Sports glider........the Libelle!!!

Brian
"Tim" wrote in message
ups.com...
You make one of my main points perfectly.

If we want to EDUCATE new, aspiring racing pilots, Sports Class is
terrific. Go ahead and hang your shingle out there - Even in an HP-14 -
which by the way was my first ship. You will learn more about flying
for performance and glider handling in one week of oragnized contest
flying than you will in many, many years of flying around the patch or
with friends, even if you are at the bottom of the score sheet.

If we want to teach new, aspiring racing pilots how to COMPETE and RACE
FOR A WIN, then Sports Class fails. You can only learn to compete and
race when you are in situations of rough equality - pilot skill and
equipment. Sports Class handicaps do not offer that rough equality to a
broad enough range of older gliders at present.

If aspiring Club Class pilots and those owning Club Class gliders think
the Sports Class handicaps are going to come to them are dreaming.
When the base-line Sports Class ship at your average Sports Nats
becomes a V2 - who do think will suffer when it comes time to "tweak"
the handicaps for better competition?

Keep the faith, if you really love to compete, take you HP to a sports
class contest and learn the skills for competing and soak in the
ambience; then, if you really are hooked on racing gliders to win, join
the bandwagon to get a class that encompasses the older, increasingly
dispossessed ships -we could use the support.

Tim McAllister "EY"
Std. Libelle

Wayne Paul wrote:
I have considered entering "Sports Class" contests with my HP-14; however,
it seems like a useless effort considering the ships which I would be
competing against.

Yes, I know that entering would make me a better pilot; however, any week
dedicated to flying with other good pilots will do that.

Wayne, an HP 14 in good condition is an excellent match for Ephrata
conditions, as is any glider near a 1.00 handicap. There are plenty of
turnpoints to choose from so can usually choose a good area. Come on up
and try it! You'll learn some contest flying, something you won't learn
just from "flying with other good pilots".


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Tim Mara wrote:
not necessarily.......it may just mean that the 50 you eliminated
will be
replaced with the 50 who don't waste their time and money to be
fodder for
the 50 with the latest and greatest ships....

That just aint so, Tim. I wish it were true, but we don't have people
wishing to race and unable to get in. Look at last years Parowan
regionals. They got only 19 total in sports and *Reverse Seeding* was
in affect, so as many as wanted could have entered, without any seeding
(not on the list = top of the entry list) Another thing, if your
proposal was in effect only 8 of the 19 would have been allowed in.

Look at Air Sailing all sports regionals, they can only gin up 5 or 6
total and they offer thermaiing camps and cross country camps ahead of
the sports contest.

It's a sign of the times, we aint getting the new blood into the sport,
much less into racing.

Thanks for the offer to fly an old wooden thing, I actually thought
about entering my Bowlus Super Albatross in Parowan, then I remembered
what it didn't have, oxygen, radio, 2- GPS's, computer. Then I
remembered the last day, last year, 100 mile final glide over hostle
territory and I asked myself, "Do you really want to do that in a
Bowlus?" Myself said, "NO".
JJ

the whole point is.......if you have the ship for the competitive FAI
Class..then fly in the FAI class.No one will be taking your spot there on
the grid with their Standard Cirrus or Libelle.....
I hear no one complaining that the FAI classes are over booked with K6's or
the like....
IMHO (and many others) what Club class (Sports) was intended for and should
be for, is a place for these lesser budget racers to compete on a fair and
fun playing field....
tim

wrote in message
oups.com...

Tim Mara wrote:
not necessarily.......it may just mean that the 50 you eliminated
will be
replaced with the 50 who don't waste their time and money to be
fodder for
the 50 with the latest and greatest ships....

That just aint so, Tim. I wish it were true, but we don't have people
wishing to race and unable to get in. Look at last years Parowan
regionals. They got only 19 total in sports and *Reverse Seeding* was
in affect, so as many as wanted could have entered, without any seeding
(not on the list = top of the entry list) Another thing, if your
proposal was in effect only 8 of the 19 would have been allowed in.

Look at Air Sailing all sports regionals, they can only gin up 5 or 6
total and they offer thermaiing camps and cross country camps ahead of
the sports contest.

It's a sign of the times, we aint getting the new blood into the sport,
much less into racing.

Thanks for the offer to fly an old wooden thing, I actually thought
about entering my Bowlus Super Albatross in Parowan, then I remembered
what it didn't have, oxygen, radio, 2- GPS's, computer. Then I
remembered the last day, last year, 100 mile final glide over hostle
territory and I asked myself, "Do you really want to do that in a
Bowlus?" Myself said, "NO".
JJ

JJ.....

I think you will agree that it was an overall good contest though, and very
nice country. I for one was very impressed with the area, and I did not even
fly in it!!! Bye the way.....my kids loved the pictures of you motorhome
mural that I took, now they want one......Thanks a lot!!!!!!!!


wrote in message
oups.com...

Tim Mara wrote:
not necessarily.......it may just mean that the 50 you eliminated
will be
replaced with the 50 who don't waste their time and money to be
fodder for
the 50 with the latest and greatest ships....

That just aint so, Tim. I wish it were true, but we don't have people
wishing to race and unable to get in. Look at last years Parowan
regionals. They got only 19 total in sports and *Reverse Seeding* was
in affect, so as many as wanted could have entered, without any seeding
(not on the list = top of the entry list) Another thing, if your
proposal was in effect only 8 of the 19 would have been allowed in.

Look at Air Sailing all sports regionals, they can only gin up 5 or 6
total and they offer thermaiing camps and cross country camps ahead of
the sports contest.

It's a sign of the times, we aint getting the new blood into the sport,
much less into racing.

Thanks for the offer to fly an old wooden thing, I actually thought
about entering my Bowlus Super Albatross in Parowan, then I remembered
what it didn't have, oxygen, radio, 2- GPS's, computer. Then I
remembered the last day, last year, 100 mile final glide over hostle
territory and I asked myself, "Do you really want to do that in a
Bowlus?" Myself said, "NO".
JJ