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#1
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and he looked pretty shocked when I said, "No thanks, I
don't know how you fly!" Bob Fry wrote: Whoa! Aren't there other ways of getting out of a risky flight?? You know, think back to your dating days..."oh, I can't go out with you then, I'm cleaning out my cat's litter box that night..." Or was it only me? It would have been different if I kind of knew this guy or knew others who know him. I'd only seen him at the airport once before ... he pulled up in his car to talk with me (translation: interrupt) while I was preflighting. I was courteous and stopped for a few minutes to talk, even though I don't interrupt others when I see them preflighting, especially people I don't even know. When he walked up the second time, and just ASSUMED that because we'd talked once, I would go with him-- "SO, when are we going flying??"--I could have made a nicer-sounding excuse, but my deliberate curt response hopefully conveyed that just because we had one "good morning, nice day isn't it?" conversation doesn't mean that I'm going to climb into an airplane with what is still, when you think about putting your life in their hands, a TOTAL STRANGER. Again, it's a no-brainer that you don't take *car* rides from total strangers ... why are airplane rides any different? |
#2
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wrote in message
... [...] doesn't mean that I'm going to climb into an airplane with what is still, when you think about putting your life in their hands, a TOTAL STRANGER. Again, it's a no-brainer that you don't take *car* rides from total strangers ... why are airplane rides any different? Be careful about your generalizations. In the scenario you describe, I see no reason to accept a ride. But there are plenty of examples of passengers who are total strangers to the pilot accepting rides, as are there examples of taking car rides from total strangers, all in very reasonable, accepted situations. Pete |
#3
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"Peter Duniho" wrote:
Be careful about your generalizations. In the scenario you describe, I see no reason to accept a ride. But there are plenty of examples of passengers who are total strangers to the pilot accepting rides, as are there examples of taking car rides from total strangers, all in very reasonable, accepted situations. I didn't make any generalizations. In the scenario described, I knew *nothing* about this person, not even his name, and he was not an acquaintance of anyone I knew ... just a man driving through the airport. I don't know what examples there are of people taking car rides or plane rides from total strangers--no one I know gets into a car with a person they don't even know. I'm not talking about taxicab drivers, limo drivers, courtesy rides from maintenance shops, charter pilots or CFIs doing Discovery Flights...that's a completely different scenario where the passenger has initiated the ride/flight as part of a service they are paying for. I was talking about a total stranger assuming you would have no qualms about hopping into an airplane with him. |
#4
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wrote in message
... I didn't make any generalizations. I guess it was someone else who wrote: "it's a no-brainer that you don't take *car* rides from total strangers". Sounds like a generalization to me. [...] I don't know what examples there are of people taking car rides or plane rides from total strangers--no one I know gets into a car with a person they don't even know. One of the volunteer things I have done was to drive total strangers. They didn't know me, I didn't know them. Last I heard, EAA was still doing Young Eagles flights. Again, total strangers. And believe it or not, there are people who still hitch-hike. Some risk? Sure. But flying with someone you know doesn't preclude risk either. I would say the issue is only a "no-brainer" for someone without a brain. Otherwise, there is some thinking involved. You have to weigh the various aspects of the situation. Pete |
#5
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"Peter Duniho" wrote:
I guess it was someone else who wrote: "it's a no-brainer that you don't take *car* rides from total strangers". Sounds like a generalization to me. Take one sentence out of context, and of course it sounds like a generalization. In context, however, I was referring to situations like the one described -- someone you don't know walks up to you and assumes you're going flying together. One of the volunteer things I have done was to drive total strangers. They didn't know me, I didn't know them. Did you just pick people at random on the street that you assumed needed rides? or were you a volunteer with some sort of program that matched up drivers with people needing rides? -- two very different things. In fact, in some parts, a man offering rides to people at random, especially ladies, may well prompt someone to call the police. Last I heard, EAA was still doing Young Eagles flights. Again, total strangers. Again, that's a completely different situation that what I was discussing. Young Eagle flights and the EAA are established programs. Those participating, on both sides, may not know one another, but there is at least an *implied* understanding of that program. That's one notch up from being a "total" stranger and different than some stranger offering you a ride at random. And believe it or not, there are people who still hitch-hike. Some risk? Sure. But flying with someone you know doesn't preclude risk either. EXACTLY. That was the point! In the scenario being discussed, I wasn't hitching an airplane ride. You have to weigh the various aspects of the situation. Yes, and that was Jay's original question, if anyone has ever refused to fly with someone. |
#6
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wrote in message
... Take one sentence out of context, and of course it sounds like a generalization. In context, however, I was referring to situations like the one described The context was about airplanes. Your comment specified cars. How can you possibly claim that your comment was NOT a generalization. You specifically generalized from airplanes to cars, and from a specific stranger to all strangers generally. [...] That's one notch up from being a "total" stranger and different than some stranger offering you a ride at random. Thus the problem with generalizations. When you fail to qualify your statement, it becomes inaccurate. Just because someone else is vouching for a person, that does not keep them from being a total stranger. It simply makes them a different kind of total stranger. Thank you for illustrating exactly the problem with generalizations I was talking about. And believe it or not, there are people who still hitch-hike. Some risk? Sure. But flying with someone you know doesn't preclude risk either. EXACTLY. That was the point! In the scenario being discussed, I wasn't hitching an airplane ride. Because you refused, true. But it's reasonably analagous to hitch-hiking, which is not a uniformly dangerous practice. Yes, and that was Jay's original question, if anyone has ever refused to fly with someone. Actually, his question was "Have you ever refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe?" That's a very different question from "have you ever refused to fly with someone you did not know to be entirely safe?" The person you described was not someone you had any reason to believe "was not entirely safe." The only reason for declining the ride was your lack of knowledge about him, not some specific knowledge about him. Pete |
#7
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"Peter Duniho" wrote:
Thus the problem with generalizations. When you fail to qualify your statement, it becomes inaccurate. This seems a little silly to me ... what you claim was my "generalization" did not make my comment "inaccurate". It was part of a discussion about differing attitudes about offering and accepting airplane and car rides from strangers. No accurate or inaccurate about it, just added a comment to the topic; but feel free to dissect the words and phrases and label each if you feel that need. Just because someone else is vouching for a person, that does not keep them from being a total stranger. It simply makes them a different kind of total stranger. Agreed. But in the scenario I was talking about, no one had vouched for anyone. The minute you begin to learn things about someone, they become less of a stranger, and what you've learned influences decisions about things like accepting invites for flights or rides. Pilots and passengers at major airlines are usually total strangers too; however, their business is offering rides for money, you are in need of the ride, and even though you don't know the pilots or the mechanics, there is *some* implied assurance that these people had certain qualifications for their jobs, and the pilots now have a little more implied assurance that passengers aren't going to be dangerous. Even with all that, there's still some risk. But that's still different than going to an airport and approaching any stranger standing next to any airplane to take you to your destination...or to hop into your airplane with you. Thank you for illustrating exactly the problem with generalizations I was talking about. I am aware of the problem with generalizations, but I'm not sure what your problem is with my comment. You're free to think it's fine to accept plane rides from some random person on the field or to expect that any stranger you offer a ride to will assume you're a competent pilot if that's your opinion. But it's reasonably analagous to hitch-hiking, which is not a uniformly dangerous practice. Maybe you need to take some of your own advice about generalizations. I don't know where you live, but many would disagree that hitch-hiking "is not a uniformly dangerous practice." Quite the opposite. The person you described was not someone you had any reason to believe "was not entirely safe." The only reason for declining the ride was your lack of knowledge about him, not some specific knowledge about him. Actually, I didn't have "specific knowledge", but I did have *reason* to believe he was not entirely safe. He wouldn't go away while I was trying to preflight, he bragged about having 3000 hours and no accidents, and his overall arrogant attitude was *more* than enough for me to feel he "was not entirely safe." That may be an inaccurate assumption, maybe he's one terrific pilot; but the feeling I had about his attitude and arrogance was real enough to be a red flag *to me* about flying with him .... which WAS Jay's question. |
#8
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wrote in message
... Did you just pick people at random on the street that you assumed needed rides? In Houston, it is fairly common for people to drive by the Park-and-Ride locations and offer rides to people waiting on the bus so that they can take the HOV lane instead of being stuck in one of the12 lane parking lots that we call "expressways"... |
#9
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#10
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wrote in message
... I don't know what examples there are of people taking car rides or plane rides from total strangers--no one I know gets into a car with a person they don't even know. If my car was broke down on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere and someone offered me a ride, I wouldn't have a problem with it... Of course, I always carry a .45 with me so that might affect my judgement somewhat... |
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