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#1
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Greasy Rider© @invalid.com wrote:
Those things can cause temporary blindness and should be banned. They also have the reported ability to be directed, hand-held, into the cockpits of flying aircraft for seconds at a time. (And anyone who believes that should try holding the dot on a leaf a quarter mile away to see how well they do.) |
#2
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Hysteria aside for just a moment, have a read of ...
http://www.equipped.org/lasers_airliners.htm "Noah Little" wrote in message ... Greasy Rider© @invalid.com wrote: Those things can cause temporary blindness and should be banned. They also have the reported ability to be directed, hand-held, into the cockpits of flying aircraft for seconds at a time. (And anyone who believes that should try holding the dot on a leaf a quarter mile away to see how well they do.) |
#3
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"Cockpit Colin" wrote:
Hysteria aside for just a moment, have a read of ... http://www.equipped.org/lasers_airliners.htm Interesting and reasonable...thanks... -- --Gord (use gordon in email) "Without detonation, your car won't move. That's what makes engines go". "In my car, the high octane fuel detonates better than the lower octane grades. Fortunately for me, it doesn't PREVENT DETONATION". -Burnore. |
#4
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For what it's worth, I own one of the green variety - it's great for
pointing out starts etc at night. My feeling is that if someone shined in the cockpit from (at least) 1 or 2 miles away, ... (a) It would give me a bit of a fright - be damned annoying, but not damaging - possibly causing a precautionary go-around at worst. (b) Being that the beam is visable, it should be possible to give a pretty accurate description of where it came from. (c) Unless you mounted it mechanically, it would be pretty hard to keep it shining in a cockpit. Given the current talk on the topic I'm tempted to setup a controlled test (with an additional safety pilot) where I'll get someone to shine it at me (perhaps from the tower) during an approach in a GA aircraft. |
#5
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Cockpit Colin wrote:
For what it's worth, I own one of the green variety - it's great for pointing out starts etc at night. My feeling is that if someone shined in the cockpit from (at least) 1 or 2 miles away, ... (a) It would give me a bit of a fright - be damned annoying, but not damaging - possibly causing a precautionary go-around at worst. While it is almost impossible to cause permanent damage (pretty much the definition of class IIIa), it might ruin your night vision for a few moments or more. If it was an innopportune time plus a panicky pilot, this could cause worse than a precautionary go-around. Realistically, that is unlikely. |
#6
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Cockpit Colin wrote:
(c) Unless you mounted it mechanically, it would be pretty hard to keep it shining in a cockpit. And if you did mount it mechanically, it would be pretty hard to keep it shining in a cockpit. :-) (Point being, getting more than a momentary "flash" visible to a pilot would require more sophistication than is available to the average backyard laser-waver.) -- Noah |
#7
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"Cockpit Colin" wrote:
For what it's worth, I own one of the green variety - it's great for pointing out starts etc at night. My feeling is that if someone shined in the cockpit from (at least) 1 or 2 miles away, ... (a) It would give me a bit of a fright - be damned annoying, but not damaging - possibly causing a precautionary go-around at worst. (b) Being that the beam is visable, it should be possible to give a pretty accurate description of where it came from. (c) Unless you mounted it mechanically, it would be pretty hard to keep it shining in a cockpit. Given the current talk on the topic I'm tempted to setup a controlled test (with an additional safety pilot) where I'll get someone to shine it at me (perhaps from the tower) during an approach in a GA aircraft. FYI, I'm quite sure that a Canadian Armed Forces helicopter pilot suffered some eye damage from being hit by a powerful laser from a Russian trawler on the West coast several years ago. It was hushed up pretty quick but I'm fairly sure of the info. -- --Gord (use gordon in email) "Without detonation, your car won't move. That's what makes engines go". "In my car, the high octane fuel detonates better than the lower octane grades. Fortunately for me, it doesn't PREVENT DETONATION". -Burnore. Yes, Detonation is a normal condition and it occurs every time you have ignition, you really need to get over that! -Josh |
#8
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"Cockpit Colin" wrote:
For what it's worth, I own one of the green variety - it's great for pointing out starts etc at night. My feeling is that if someone shined in the cockpit from (at least) 1 or 2 miles away, ... (a) It would give me a bit of a fright - be damned annoying, but not damaging - possibly causing a precautionary go-around at worst. (b) Being that the beam is visable, it should be possible to give a pretty accurate description of where it came from. (c) Unless you mounted it mechanically, it would be pretty hard to keep it shining in a cockpit. Given the current talk on the topic I'm tempted to setup a controlled test (with an additional safety pilot) where I'll get someone to shine it at me (perhaps from the tower) during an approach in a GA aircraft. Regardless of what that web page said, or of your feelings outlined above, I still put shining a laser, or for that matter any other light source, at an aircraft - cockpit or not - in the same category as shooting a rifle at an aircraft. Sure, the probability of either bringing down the aircraft [or even hitting it for that matter] is low. But mishap after mishap report has identified the mishap as a chain of low probability events and omissions that combined to render the mishap inevitable. There is no way of some yahoo having fun pointing his laser or rifle at an aircraft knowing whether or not the aircraft is in the midst of such a chain, and that the momentary distraction of a laser flash in a pilot's eye, or a round ripping through a cockpit window might be the final event in the chain that terminates the flight in a smoking pile of wreckage. For verisimilitude, why don't you try that flight as an engine out landing, with an electrical failure on a NORDO approach. That might give us a better idea of whether or not a laser flash can be distracting. -- OJ III [Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading. Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.] |
#9
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I hear what you're saying - in the end, it becomes a matter of chance. I've
no doubt that under any circumstances a laser in the cockpit is something we really don't need - if it happens to be during the likes of a SE approach (especially in the event of it triggering a single-engine go-around) then yes, it could most definately be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I just hope it never happens to me, although I have to say I'd prefer it to someone taking pot-shots with a rifle. Regardless of what that web page said, or of your feelings outlined above, I still put shining a laser, or for that matter any other light source, at an aircraft - cockpit or not - in the same category as shooting a rifle at an aircraft. Sure, the probability of either bringing down the aircraft [or even hitting it for that matter] is low. But mishap after mishap report has identified the mishap as a chain of low probability events and omissions that combined to render the mishap inevitable. There is no way of some yahoo having fun pointing his laser or rifle at an aircraft knowing whether or not the aircraft is in the midst of such a chain, and that the momentary distraction of a laser flash in a pilot's eye, or a round ripping through a cockpit window might be the final event in the chain that terminates the flight in a smoking pile of wreckage. For verisimilitude, why don't you try that flight as an engine out landing, with an electrical failure on a NORDO approach. That might give us a better idea of whether or not a laser flash can be distracting. -- OJ III [Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading. Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.] |
#10
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"Cockpit Colin" wrote:
I hear what you're saying - in the end, it becomes a matter of chance. I've no doubt that under any circumstances a laser in the cockpit is something we really don't need - if it happens to be during the likes of a SE approach (especially in the event of it triggering a single-engine go-around) then yes, it could most definately be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I just hope it never happens to me, although I have to say I'd prefer it to someone taking pot-shots with a rifle. Serendipity strikes with a vengeance. This article just appeared in this morning's Washington Post, "Lasers To Signal Airspace Breaches - Sky in Region to Be Constantly Scanned" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Apr15.html "The U.S. military will begin using an elaborate network of cameras and lasers next month to scan the sky over Washington and flash colored warning beams at aircraft that enter the nation's most restricted metropolitan airspace." It goes on to explain how a system of camera/laser units will cover most of the restricted area covering a roughly 50 mi radius centered on Washington, extending to North of Baltimore, South of Quantico, and including all three major airports, National, Dulles, and BWI, in the region. [Derived from a chart accompanying the print article, but not available online. The article itself says the camera/lasers will cover a roughly 30 mi radius. Given my skepticism of average media reporter/editor understanding in military/tech things, I'll buy into the 30 miles after seeing feedback from pilots. ;-] The article does address the ideas raised in this thread; saying: "Unlike pointers and other eye-damaging lasers that have raised safety concerns among pilots, the military's beams are low-intensity and safe enough for the eyes yet distinctive enough to alert pilots that something's wrong, officials say. From government building rooftops, the lasers will pinpoint an aircraft from 20 miles away and flash a quick red-red-green sequence repeatedly. The cameras will be overseen by NORAD officials from multiple locations, including Colorado Springs; Cheyenne, Wyo.; and the Washington area. NORAD operators will activate the laser beams if a pilot does not respond to radio contact or an aircraft intercept. "Researchers who developed the technology say the laser beam is so narrowly targeted that other nearby aircraft will not be able to see it. Curtis Davis, a researcher at MIT Lincoln Laboratory who helped develop the system, said the beam is stronger than a laser pointer, but more diffuse. "We've taken the size of the beam and made it 15,000 times bigger," Davis said. "It's a foot in diameter." Hmm. 12"/15,000 = 0.0008"? That's an awfully tight beam from a laser pointer. Wonder if/how much a laser pointer diffuses going up to flight altitudes? [I know, I know, coherent beams, but I'm old enough to have been so canalized by Boy Scout flashlights that by the time lasers rolled around ...] -- OJ III [Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading. Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.] |
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