Have you ever...

"George Patterson" wrote:
Consider slow flight. Why do we teach it?

According to several of my instructors, we teach it because if you get
trapped by deteriorating weather, it's a lot safer to be looking for a
good place to land at slow speed than at cruise.

Wow, that's a scary pictu a newbie PP stuck in bad weather, flying
around with the stall horn blowing.
--
Dan

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
- Chief Inspector Dreyfus

Dan Luke wrote:
Wow, that's a scary pictu a newbie PP stuck in bad weather, flying
around with the stall horn blowing.


Way back in the 30s, some pilots would spin through an overcast and then recover
underneath in the clear. Unless the ceiling was 200', that is. Can you
imagine? Open cockpit, rain spraying you and there you go into an intentional
spin into the merk. Must have had huge balls and tiny brains....



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Way back in the 30s, some pilots would spin through an overcast and then
recover underneath in the clear. Unless the ceiling was 200', that is.
Can you imagine? Open cockpit, rain spraying you and there you go into an
intentional spin into the merk. Must have had huge balls and tiny
brains....

And appalling short life-spans.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

Way back in the 30s, some pilots would spin through an overcast and then recover
underneath in the clear. Unless the ceiling was 200', that is. Can you
imagine? Open cockpit, rain spraying you and there you go into an intentional
spin into the merk. Must have had huge balls and tiny brains....

I agree. According to Gann in his autobiography, the conventional wisdon in
those days was that the best way to handle thunderstorms was to bull right
through the center. I guess that, either way it works out, that technique gets
you through the storm the most rapidly.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
Way back in the 30s, some pilots would spin through an overcast and then
recover
underneath in the clear. Unless the ceiling was 200', that is. Can you
imagine? Open cockpit, rain spraying you and there you go into an
intentional
spin into the merk. Must have had huge balls and tiny brains....

How then would you suggest getting down through an overcast without
IFR-capable instruments?

[Let's ignore the decision making to put them there in the first place.
Let's just assume you're on top of an overcast that has 1000' bases, and you
don't have enough fuel to go far enough to see the ground]

A spin is a perfectly safe and controlled maneuver at a very slow airspeed
that puts very managable forces on the plane - remember, it is stalled.

Hilton

"Hilton" wrote in message
ink.net...
A spin is a perfectly safe and controlled maneuver at a very slow airspeed
that puts very managable forces on the plane - remember, it is stalled.

Not so safe in an AA1 if you don't have a spin recovery parachute...

Grumman-581 wrote:
Hilton wrote:
A spin is a perfectly safe and controlled maneuver at a very slow
airspeed
that puts very managable forces on the plane - remember, it is stalled.

Not so safe in an AA1 if you don't have a spin recovery parachute...

Yeah, but I don't think anyone was flying the AA1 in the 30s (see rest of
the thread).

Was the AA1 the one in the NASA video when the test pilot goes through all
the options, then pops the chute? That is a great video.

Hilton

I always found it interesting that the FAA didn't certify airplanes that
were unsafe to spin until they decided that spins were unsafe to teach! :-)

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )

"Grumman-581" wrote in message
news:y898e.18881$xL4.13426@attbi_s72...
"Hilton" wrote in message
ink.net...
A spin is a perfectly safe and controlled maneuver at a very slow
airspeed
that puts very managable forces on the plane - remember, it is stalled.

Not so safe in an AA1 if you don't have a spin recovery parachute...

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
. com...

Way back in the 30s, some pilots would spin through an overcast and then
recover underneath in the clear. Unless the ceiling was 200', that is.
Can you imagine? Open cockpit, rain spraying you and there you go into an
intentional spin into the merk. Must have had huge balls and tiny
brains....


Edgar Bergen was a cousin once removed. I feel like I am talking to a
member of the family!

Actually those pilots did indeed have a lot of courage, but certainly NOT
tiny brains. Just the opposite.

Remember, they did NOT have gyro instruments. While it is possible, if you
are EXTREMELY careful, to make in instrument letdown through an overcast
with only a magnetic compass, a steady foot, good trim and courage it is a
lot easier to put the airplane in a stable condition that will lose altitude
quickly. Most of those airplanes would pop out of a spin in a quarter turn
or less and lose no more than two or three hundred feet while doing it. A
spin is STABLE. You cannot dive into the ground at Vne + from a spin. Most
of those early airplanes would lose less than 400 feet per turn and the
airspeed would never get over about 90 mph while in a spin. An inadvertent
spiral is the most likely outcome from trying to fly instruments without any
and that will allow the airspeed to build up well over Vne. If you attempt
to jerk the airplane out of a high speed spiral when you see ground rapidly
approaching you will probably pull the wings off. Prompt recovery from a
spin will leave you wings level and only slightly faster than normal cruise
airspeed allowing you to find a field and put the darn thing down.

Compared to the available alternatives at the time, spinning through the
overcast was actually one of the safest options available and actually
pretty hard to mess up by sloppy piloting. :-)

Letting down with only a magnetic compass is a LOT trickier, albeit
possible. Do not practice this alone or in a real overcast! In the
northern hemisphere turn to a heading of 180 degrees. Trim the airplane for
best glide speed and adjust the throttle for a descent rate not to exceed
500 fpm with 300 probably somewhat safer. Remove you hands from the
controls and SIT ON THEM. :-) Carefully, using you feet, nudge the magnetic
compass back to the big "S" whenever it begins to stray out of the window.
Nudge it gently because it is wiggly as all get out. If your airspeed
remains constant, taken care of with the trim only, and you heading does not
change, you must be flying straight. If you fly straight and continue a
steady and reasonable descent you will descend in a straight course and
eventually wind up below the overcast with a controllable descent rate. Of
course, if the hilltops extend up into the clouds you may fly into something
hard and unyielding before you see the ground below you.

Both of these techniques do work. I can attest to that personally, because
if they had not, I wouldn't be writing this today. I do not recommend these
if you have gyros available. However, I have been trapped where I had to
make an "instrument" letdown or climbout when flying in an antique airplane
that had no electrical system and no gyros of any kind. Not fun, not real
safe, but certainly doable by a properly trained pilot.

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )

Highflyer wrote:

A spin is STABLE. You cannot dive into the ground at Vne + from a spin.

There are aircraft which go into a spiral dive after a couple of turns,
so be sure to know the spin characteristics fo yours before attempting a
spin in IMC.

Stefan