60 Minutes 4/17

aluckyguess wrote:
If there was enough volume they could build the plane for less than
50k. It
would replace all the old Piper, Cessna and Beech 2 and 4 seat
aircraft.
They sell new cars for way less and there looks to be more work in a
new car
than a small plane.

If the moon were made of green cheese, astronauts wouldn't need
Cheez Whiz. Simply put, there is not a market for the amount of new
planes you envision. New cars models are sold in the hundreds of
thousands per year. At that volume, manufacturers can afford to buy
robots to automate most of the work. Common parts can be interchanged
and bought very cheaply in large quantities. At GA volumes, planes
still have to be built by hand, much the way they've always been built.
That's where the cost of a plane skyrockets. I've visited the new
Cessna plant. It looks more like a huge hanger with hundreds of
homebuilders than an actual factory.

As far as there being more work involved building a new car than a
plane, all I can say is that you've obviously never built a plane
before.

I think if they could sell 1000 a month you could build it for under
50k or
close to it. The only thing I don't know is what the insurance would
cost.
I know if Lycoming had a quote come in for 12000 IO 360 engines the
price
would drop quite a bit.

Even at 1000 a month, you still can't come close to the economies of
scale that are common to the auto industry. Therefore, you shouldn't
realistically expect the price to come close either.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"John Galban" wrote in message
ups.com...

aluckyguess wrote:
If there was enough volume they could build the plane for less than
50k. It
would replace all the old Piper, Cessna and Beech 2 and 4 seat
aircraft.
They sell new cars for way less and there looks to be more work in a
new car
than a small plane.

If the moon were made of green cheese, astronauts wouldn't need
Cheez Whiz. Simply put, there is not a market for the amount of new
planes you envision. New cars models are sold in the hundreds of
thousands per year. At that volume, manufacturers can afford to buy
robots to automate most of the work. Common parts can be interchanged
and bought very cheaply in large quantities. At GA volumes, planes
still have to be built by hand, much the way they've always been built.
That's where the cost of a plane skyrockets. I've visited the new
Cessna plant. It looks more like a huge hanger with hundreds of
homebuilders than an actual factory.

As far as there being more work involved building a new car than a
plane, all I can say is that you've obviously never built a plane
before.

I have build plane parts my whole life.
Before I tell you how I think it can be done I am going to pitch my plan to
Piper if they dont listen I will try Cessna. It can be done and I think I
know a way to create the market.
If I was to go on this group and offer for sale a brand new 2005 Warrior for
under 60k with financeing how many would buy it? I know I would order one.


I think if they could sell 1000 a month you could build it for under
50k or
close to it. The only thing I don't know is what the insurance would
cost.
I know if Lycoming had a quote come in for 12000 IO 360 engines the
price
would drop quite a bit.

Even at 1000 a month, you still can't come close to the economies of
scale that are common to the auto industry. Therefore, you shouldn't
realistically expect the price to come close either.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"aluckyguess" wrote:
Before I tell you how I think it can be done I am going to pitch my
plan to Piper if they dont listen I will try Cessna.

I'm sure they'll enjoy the laugh--if you can get in the door.

If I was to go on this group and offer for sale a brand new 2005
Warrior for under 60k with financeing how many would buy it?

Does that include paint?

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

"aluckyguess" wrote:
Before I tell you how I think it can be done I am going to pitch my
plan to Piper if they dont listen I will try Cessna.

I'm sure they'll enjoy the laugh--if you can get in the door.

If I was to go on this group and offer for sale a brand new 2005
Warrior for under 60k with financeing how many would buy it?

Does that include paint?

It's a complete airplane except for airframe, engine and avionics.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
news

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

"aluckyguess" wrote:
Before I tell you how I think it can be done I am going to pitch my
plan to Piper if they dont listen I will try Cessna.

I'm sure they'll enjoy the laugh--if you can get in the door.

If I was to go on this group and offer for sale a brand new 2005
Warrior for under 60k with financeing how many would buy it?

Does that include paint?

It's a complete airplane except for airframe, engine and avionics.

It has tires... but the air to fill them is another $75K.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

"aluckyguess" wrote:
Before I tell you how I think it can be done I am going to pitch my plan
to Piper if they dont listen I will try Cessna.

I'm sure they'll enjoy the laugh--if you can get in the door.

You are probably right, but its because of things like that I retired @ 43.
Hey it wouldnt be the first time I was laughed at.

If I was to go on this group and offer for sale a brand new 2005 Warrior
for under 60k with financeing how many would buy it?

Does that include paint?

"aluckyguess" wrote in message
...

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

"aluckyguess" wrote:
Before I tell you how I think it can be done I am going to pitch my
plan
to Piper if they dont listen I will try Cessna.

I'm sure they'll enjoy the laugh--if you can get in the door.

You are probably right, but its because of things like that I retired @
43.
Hey it wouldnt be the first time I was laughed at.

Interesting!

Given that you show a profound lack of understanding of engineering,
economics, and business, I have to ask what you did to retire at 43.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"aluckyguess" wrote in message
...

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

"aluckyguess" wrote:
Before I tell you how I think it can be done I am going to pitch my
plan
to Piper if they dont listen I will try Cessna.

I'm sure they'll enjoy the laugh--if you can get in the door.

You are probably right, but its because of things like that I retired @
43.
Hey it wouldnt be the first time I was laughed at.

Interesting!

Given that you show a profound lack of understanding of engineering,
economics, and business, I have to ask what you did to retire at 43.

I had a machine shop that built aircraft parts.
It must be you who has no understanding of engineeing econmics and business.
What do you do?
The plane can be built for the price its the untangibles that might cause
the problem like liability insurance. If thats 50k a plane than it cant be
done.

--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

Aluckyguess,

The plane can be built for the price its the untangibles that might cause
the problem like liability insurance. If thats 50k a plane than it cant be
done.


Which is why everybody except you is too dumb to figure it out?


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

"aluckyguess" wrote:
Before I tell you how I think it can be done I am going to pitch my
plan to Piper if they dont listen I will try Cessna.

I'm sure they'll enjoy the laugh--if you can get in the door.

If I was to go on this group and offer for sale a brand new 2005
Warrior for under 60k with financeing how many would buy it?

Does that include paint?


Yes, it includes paint.

The engine is another matter!

--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO