Can they do this? Restrict airport to IFR traffic only?

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....2.4.5&idno=14
§ 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and
certain flight tests.
...
(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument
flight unless-

(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who
possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and
class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.

seems to permit Simulated instrument flight in VMC without mention of
the PIC having an instrument rating on his pilot certificate. The
question then becomes, is Simulated instrument flight in VMC conducted
under VFR or IFR?



That's the beautiful part of instrument training.
If you have a buddy working on his rating, too, you can both log PIC time on
a trip.
You'd fly it IFR. Of course, it would have to be in VMC.
One way, you're under the hood (logging it as hood time), he's logging PIC.
Then you switch on the way back. Can't beat that.

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:48:00 -0700, "mindenpilot"
wrote in
::


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....2.4.5&idno=14
§ 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and
certain flight tests.
...
(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument
flight unless-

(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who
possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and
class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.

seems to permit Simulated instrument flight in VMC without mention of
the PIC having an instrument rating on his pilot certificate. The
question then becomes, is Simulated instrument flight in VMC conducted
under VFR or IFR?



That's the beautiful part of instrument training.
If you have a buddy working on his rating, too, you can both log PIC time on
a trip.
You'd fly it IFR. Of course, it would have to be in VMC.
One way, you're under the hood (logging it as hood time), he's logging PIC.
Then you switch on the way back. Can't beat that.


Being instrument rated, I am aware of practice instrument approaches
in VMC. But does ATC consider them as being conducted in under IFR or
VFR regulations? That is my point.

Perhaps one of the ATC professionals among the readership of this
newsgroup is will be able to cite the relevant FAA Order governing
this.

Larry Dighera wrote:




Being instrument rated, I am aware of practice instrument approaches
in VMC. But does ATC consider them as being conducted in under IFR or
VFR regulations?

Depends on whether you are VFR or IFR at the time. If you are flying
under IFR rules then you will get standard IFR separation and all the
standard IFR rules apply. If you are doing approaches VFR then you will
get 3 miles of lateral separation, just like a regular IFR aircraft, but
you only get 500 feet of vertical separation. Two other differences
are that your 3 miles of lateral only extend to the approach end of the
runway, so you have three miles decreasing to zero once inside of three
miles. At your missed you are strictly VFR and have to request the
published missed if that's what you want. It's all in the .65.

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:54:57 -0600, Newps wrote
in ::

Larry Dighera wrote:

Being instrument rated, I am aware of practice instrument approaches
in VMC. But does ATC consider them as being conducted in under IFR or
VFR regulations?

Depends on whether you are VFR or IFR at the time. If you are flying
under IFR rules then you will get standard IFR separation and all the
standard IFR rules apply. If you are doing approaches VFR then you will
get 3 miles of lateral separation, just like a regular IFR aircraft, but
you only get 500 feet of vertical separation. Two other differences
are that your 3 miles of lateral only extend to the approach end of the
runway, so you have three miles decreasing to zero once inside of three
miles. At your missed you are strictly VFR and have to request the
published missed if that's what you want. It's all in the .65.

Thanks for the information. I had a feeling it was contained in FAA
Order 7110.65, but wanted to avoid the work of locating the specific
regulation(s), although it would be interesting to read them.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
[...]
Thanks for the information. I had a feeling it was contained in FAA
Order 7110.65, but wanted to avoid the work of locating the specific
regulation(s), although it would be interesting to read them.

That answer didn't really address your question (unless I misunderstood it).

Simulated instrument conditions refer to the *meteorological* conditions
being simulated for the flight, not the regulatory conditions. The
restriction to IFR traffic addresses the regulatory conditions, not the
meteorological conditions.

You can simulate instrument meteorological conditions all you want, that
doesn't qualify you for an arrival into an airport restricted to IFR
arrivals. Not even if you get ATC to help you by simulating IFR services.

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

[...]
Thanks for the information. I had a feeling it was contained in FAA
Order 7110.65, but wanted to avoid the work of locating the specific
regulation(s), although it would be interesting to read them.


That answer didn't really address your question (unless I misunderstood it).

Simulated instrument conditions refer to the *meteorological* conditions
being simulated for the flight, not the regulatory conditions. The
restriction to IFR traffic addresses the regulatory conditions, not the
meteorological conditions.

You can simulate instrument meteorological conditions all you want, that
doesn't qualify you for an arrival into an airport restricted to IFR
arrivals. Not even if you get ATC to help you by simulating IFR services.

And there's no way you'll get any practice approaches into that airport
on that day or days whether you're IFR or VFR.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:48:00 -0700, "mindenpilot"
wrote in
::


Being instrument rated, I am aware of practice instrument approaches
in VMC. But does ATC consider them as being conducted in under IFR or
VFR regulations? That is my point.

Perhaps one of the ATC professionals among the readership of this
newsgroup is will be able to cite the relevant FAA Order governing
this.



In the article mentioned in the OP, it says that flights would be restricted
to IFR flights on an IFR flight plan.
I'm still not sure if you could get away with simply filing an IFR flight
plan and flying it maintaining VFR the entire time.
As Larry mentioned, could an ATC pro clear this up?

Thanks,

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

In the article mentioned in the OP, it says that flights would be restricted
to IFR flights on an IFR flight plan.
I'm still not sure if you could get away with simply filing an IFR flight
plan and flying it maintaining VFR the entire time.
As Larry mentioned, could an ATC pro clear this up?


To operate under an IFR flight plan (as in UNDER A CLEARANCE) you must
be instrument rated and current. What the weather is like doesn't
matter. Either you CAN legally accept an IFR clearance or you CANNOT.

Also, in a general comment regarding the whole thread... I'm noting that
this discussion is being based on a lay-media article that is not being
written to a pilot/industry audience. I wouldn't be surprised if either
an STMP is placed in effect for this event, with reservations required,
or perhaps other clarification being disseminated by NOTAM closer to the
event.

Dave

"Dave S" wrote

To operate under an IFR flight plan (as in UNDER A CLEARANCE) you must
be instrument rated and current. What the weather is like doesn't
matter. Either you CAN legally accept an IFR clearance or you CANNOT.


If that is true, how can a pilot who has let his currency lapse, get current
again?

Doesn't he have to be on an IFR flight to get current again?
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"Dave S" wrote


To operate under an IFR flight plan (as in UNDER A CLEARANCE) you must
be instrument rated and current. What the weather is like doesn't
matter. Either you CAN legally accept an IFR clearance or you CANNOT.



If that is true, how can a pilot who has let his currency lapse, get current
again?

Doesn't he have to be on an IFR flight to get current again?

Either with another pilot in the plane serving as safety who can accept
the IFR clearance (and IS the PIC for that purpose), or under VFR under
the hood with a safety pilot..

Or with an authorized instructor for an IPC. (Who can conduct it under
either above listed method)

Dave