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On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:48:00 -0700, "mindenpilot"
wrote in :: "Larry Dighera" wrote in message .. . http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....2.4.5&idno=14 § 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and certain flight tests. ... (b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless- (1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown. seems to permit Simulated instrument flight in VMC without mention of the PIC having an instrument rating on his pilot certificate. The question then becomes, is Simulated instrument flight in VMC conducted under VFR or IFR? That's the beautiful part of instrument training. If you have a buddy working on his rating, too, you can both log PIC time on a trip. You'd fly it IFR. Of course, it would have to be in VMC. One way, you're under the hood (logging it as hood time), he's logging PIC. Then you switch on the way back. Can't beat that. Being instrument rated, I am aware of practice instrument approaches in VMC. But does ATC consider them as being conducted in under IFR or VFR regulations? That is my point. Perhaps one of the ATC professionals among the readership of this newsgroup is will be able to cite the relevant FAA Order governing this. |
#2
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![]() Larry Dighera wrote: Being instrument rated, I am aware of practice instrument approaches in VMC. But does ATC consider them as being conducted in under IFR or VFR regulations? Depends on whether you are VFR or IFR at the time. If you are flying under IFR rules then you will get standard IFR separation and all the standard IFR rules apply. If you are doing approaches VFR then you will get 3 miles of lateral separation, just like a regular IFR aircraft, but you only get 500 feet of vertical separation. Two other differences are that your 3 miles of lateral only extend to the approach end of the runway, so you have three miles decreasing to zero once inside of three miles. At your missed you are strictly VFR and have to request the published missed if that's what you want. It's all in the .65. |
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On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:54:57 -0600, Newps wrote
in :: Larry Dighera wrote: Being instrument rated, I am aware of practice instrument approaches in VMC. But does ATC consider them as being conducted in under IFR or VFR regulations? Depends on whether you are VFR or IFR at the time. If you are flying under IFR rules then you will get standard IFR separation and all the standard IFR rules apply. If you are doing approaches VFR then you will get 3 miles of lateral separation, just like a regular IFR aircraft, but you only get 500 feet of vertical separation. Two other differences are that your 3 miles of lateral only extend to the approach end of the runway, so you have three miles decreasing to zero once inside of three miles. At your missed you are strictly VFR and have to request the published missed if that's what you want. It's all in the .65. Thanks for the information. I had a feeling it was contained in FAA Order 7110.65, but wanted to avoid the work of locating the specific regulation(s), although it would be interesting to read them. |
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"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
... [...] Thanks for the information. I had a feeling it was contained in FAA Order 7110.65, but wanted to avoid the work of locating the specific regulation(s), although it would be interesting to read them. That answer didn't really address your question (unless I misunderstood it). Simulated instrument conditions refer to the *meteorological* conditions being simulated for the flight, not the regulatory conditions. The restriction to IFR traffic addresses the regulatory conditions, not the meteorological conditions. You can simulate instrument meteorological conditions all you want, that doesn't qualify you for an arrival into an airport restricted to IFR arrivals. Not even if you get ATC to help you by simulating IFR services. Pete |
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![]() Peter Duniho wrote: "Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... [...] Thanks for the information. I had a feeling it was contained in FAA Order 7110.65, but wanted to avoid the work of locating the specific regulation(s), although it would be interesting to read them. That answer didn't really address your question (unless I misunderstood it). Simulated instrument conditions refer to the *meteorological* conditions being simulated for the flight, not the regulatory conditions. The restriction to IFR traffic addresses the regulatory conditions, not the meteorological conditions. You can simulate instrument meteorological conditions all you want, that doesn't qualify you for an arrival into an airport restricted to IFR arrivals. Not even if you get ATC to help you by simulating IFR services. And there's no way you'll get any practice approaches into that airport on that day or days whether you're IFR or VFR. |
#6
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![]() "Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:48:00 -0700, "mindenpilot" wrote in :: Being instrument rated, I am aware of practice instrument approaches in VMC. But does ATC consider them as being conducted in under IFR or VFR regulations? That is my point. Perhaps one of the ATC professionals among the readership of this newsgroup is will be able to cite the relevant FAA Order governing this. In the article mentioned in the OP, it says that flights would be restricted to IFR flights on an IFR flight plan. I'm still not sure if you could get away with simply filing an IFR flight plan and flying it maintaining VFR the entire time. As Larry mentioned, could an ATC pro clear this up? Thanks, Adam N7966L Beech Super III |
#7
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![]() In the article mentioned in the OP, it says that flights would be restricted to IFR flights on an IFR flight plan. I'm still not sure if you could get away with simply filing an IFR flight plan and flying it maintaining VFR the entire time. As Larry mentioned, could an ATC pro clear this up? To operate under an IFR flight plan (as in UNDER A CLEARANCE) you must be instrument rated and current. What the weather is like doesn't matter. Either you CAN legally accept an IFR clearance or you CANNOT. Also, in a general comment regarding the whole thread... I'm noting that this discussion is being based on a lay-media article that is not being written to a pilot/industry audience. I wouldn't be surprised if either an STMP is placed in effect for this event, with reservations required, or perhaps other clarification being disseminated by NOTAM closer to the event. Dave |
#8
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![]() "Dave S" wrote To operate under an IFR flight plan (as in UNDER A CLEARANCE) you must be instrument rated and current. What the weather is like doesn't matter. Either you CAN legally accept an IFR clearance or you CANNOT. If that is true, how can a pilot who has let his currency lapse, get current again? Doesn't he have to be on an IFR flight to get current again? -- Jim in NC |
#9
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![]() Morgans wrote: "Dave S" wrote To operate under an IFR flight plan (as in UNDER A CLEARANCE) you must be instrument rated and current. What the weather is like doesn't matter. Either you CAN legally accept an IFR clearance or you CANNOT. If that is true, how can a pilot who has let his currency lapse, get current again? Doesn't he have to be on an IFR flight to get current again? Either with another pilot in the plane serving as safety who can accept the IFR clearance (and IS the PIC for that purpose), or under VFR under the hood with a safety pilot.. Or with an authorized instructor for an IPC. (Who can conduct it under either above listed method) Dave |
#10
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![]() "Dave S" wrote in message link.net... Morgans wrote: If that is true, how can a pilot who has let his currency lapse, get current again? Doesn't he have to be on an IFR flight to get current again? Either with another pilot in the plane serving as safety who can accept the IFR clearance (and IS the PIC for that purpose), or under VFR under the hood with a safety pilot.. Or with an authorized instructor for an IPC. (Who can conduct it under either above listed method) Dave This is what the instrument proficiency check is all about - what is it, six months after the 6 months? Requires a CFII if I understand correctly... |
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