Avgas in France has reached $7.50/gal !

"Newps" wrote in message
...

they apparently have other priorities. They have faster trains, for
example. How
does this compare with the US?

We have some fast trains too but we can't get them to stop so they have
been mothballed for a while.

The Railroad to nowhere.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/19/op...19tierney.html

(Might require registration)'

--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

Jay Honeck wrote:

So, to summarize: Yes, there is fewer GA in Europe. But even if you would
wipe all avgas taxes, there wouldn't be more.

You admit that predatory taxation has added 25% to the cost of GA in France
(which is a gross under-estimation, BTW) -- and in the same breath say that
it has NO impact on it?

That is the most absurd assertion I've seen in Usenet -- and I've seen some
whoppers over the years.

Well let's go back to the premise of the post, that avgas costs $7.50 a gallon
in France. Avgas in France would be priced in Euros, so somebody's converting
Euros to US dollars using the current conversion rate. That's mathematically
accurate, but doesn't tell the whole story. The dollar is very weak to the
euro right now, which affects Americans buying European goods and Europeans
buying American goods, but doesn't affect Europeans buying domestic products as
much. For example, if the price of the dollar versus euros fell tomorrow to
1/2 of what it is today, it would appear that avgas would cost USD 15.00 a
gallon. This would appear to American to be much more expensive, but would not
really change what avgas would cost to a French(wo)man in France.

European countries tend to tax consumption higher, the US doesn't. One reason
avgas is kept expensive is because autogas is very expensive to encourage
public transit and excellent high speed rail service. If avgas would be priced
lower then autogas, there would be an incentive to burn avgas on the road
(which wouldn't do cat converter much good.) Note that Jet-A is much cheaper
in Europe. This is another reason driving the diesel piston aviation engine
and several European companies are leading this technology.

Aviation gasoline will continue to get more expensive in the US, and eventually
may not be available at any price. It can be found (in the US as of last
week) selling at $4.82/US Gallon so you can say that the US is working hard to
catch up with France, and that's without all of those European taxes as well.
Avgas is a boutique fuel that must be specially handled and is produced in
very limited quantities compared to other products, with a lot of liability for
the slightest mishap. More and more corporate and other high consumption
aviation gas consumption has been shifted to aircraft that burn Jet A, further
decreasing the economies of scale for 100ll. Also very importantly, it
contains a *lot* of tetraethyl lead (despite that LL designation), and leaded
autogas was eventually banned by 1996 in the US for a good reason.

Surprisingly essence avec plomb (super) is still available in France, although
it does cost more then sans plomb so it isn't purchased nearly as much. .

"Wolfgang Schwanke" wrote in message
...
"Matt Barrow" wrote in
:

But they have all sorts of other toys. I know a few myself. Of course,
they have cell phones that cost $60 or more a month, but not
catastrophic health insurance that costs around the same amount.

Expensive phones you have there.

Some cost much more (ie, unlimited time).

But it someone else is paying for their living expenses, what do they care?


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

There's a healthy light aircraft and glider industry here in Germany,
not just airbus. I think France has some too.

and Diamond comes to mind .... an Austrian company (also with a production
plant
in Canada).

Sorry, Martin. Here's more bad news for Europe and Austria:

From AOPA's member news area:
"And with that, Dries dropped a bomb. Diamond, he said, is establishing what
it calls the Diamond China Project, a new manufacturing facility that will
be built "about 300 kilometers east of Beijing." Site construction began one
month ago, and it will be twice the size of Diamond's Austrian facility -
and capable of employing 1,700 employees and building 600 aircraft a year.
Eventually, all propeller-driven Diamond aircraft will be built at the
Chinese plant, starting with DA40s. The first DA40 will roll out the
so-called "Aviation City" factory doors by year-end."

--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:97A9e.4563$c24.215@attbi_s72...

Chris, it will only feel like we're subsidizing your flying, after the way
you've been abused. Our airports are 100% supported by the (relatively
small) taxes on our fuel. (Or, rather, they WOULD be, if our
legislatures didn't continually rape the fund for all sorts of things that
have nothing to do with aviation.)

--
Jay Honeck


Jay, this is total BS. The amount raised from the tax on avgas is $60
million annually. It doesn't even begin to pay for flight service stations
nevermind airports or anything else. Even AOPA achknowleged this in a
recent magazine. If we were to support airports with a gas tax gas would be
$7.80...or more...

Mike
MU-2

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Peter" wrote

According to the news report on the brake rotors they come from the
consortium of Canada's Bombardier and France's Alstom.

Ahhh, by the fine folks that bring you
Rotax. I rest my case.
--
Jim in NC

That's one train I will not be riding.

"Jay Honeck" wrote

Sorry, Martin. Here's more bad news for Europe and Austria:

From AOPA's member news area:
"And with that, Dries dropped a bomb. Diamond, he said, is establishing
what
it calls the Diamond China Project, a new manufacturing facility that will
be built "about 300 kilometers east of Beijing." Site construction began
one
month ago, and it will be twice the size of Diamond's Austrian facility -
and capable of employing 1,700 employees and building 600 aircraft a year.
Eventually, all propeller-driven Diamond aircraft will be built at the
Chinese plant, starting with DA40s. The first DA40 will roll out the
so-called "Aviation City" factory doors by year-end."

Good Lord help us all! I suppose they will be made with China steel. That
is the softest, inconsistent crap have ever seen, let alone all the other
made in China crap.
--
Jim in NC

Jay, this is total BS. The amount raised from the tax on avgas is $60
million annually. It doesn't even begin to pay for flight service
stations nevermind airports or anything else. Even AOPA achknowleged this
in a recent magazine. If we were to support airports with a gas tax gas
would be $7.80...or more...

Allow me to re-phrase that more precisely.

In Iowa, if the Iowa legislature didn't keep spending all of the tax money
brought in by aviation on things other than aviation, we wouldn't be
scraping for money to repave our ramp. We would have ample money in the
coffers to properly maintain our airport(s).

Hell, during a recent "budget crisis" year (aren't they all?), they
eliminated ALL spending on aviation in the state. But they sure didn't cut
any taxes.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Good Lord help us all! I suppose they will be made with China steel.
That
is the softest, inconsistent crap have ever seen, let alone all the other
made in China crap.

Now you've done it, Jim, you racist pig. How DARE you launch a wholesale
assault on another culture?

;-)

Hey, I wonder how many years (months?) it will be before GA in China
over-takes what's left of GA in France?

ducking!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:97A9e.4563$c24.215@attbi_s72...

Chris, it will only feel like we're subsidizing your flying, after the
way
you've been abused. Our airports are 100% supported by the (relatively
small) taxes on our fuel. (Or, rather, they WOULD be, if our
legislatures didn't continually rape the fund for all sorts of things
that
have nothing to do with aviation.)

--
Jay Honeck


Jay, this is total BS. The amount raised from the tax on avgas is $60
million annually. It doesn't even begin to pay for flight service
stations
nevermind airports or anything else. Even AOPA achknowleged this in a
recent magazine. If we were to support airports with a gas tax gas would
be
$7.80...or more...


Does the tax on Jet-A and other fees support the airlines usages?

Has anyone ever done a complete breakout of costs vs. revenue of the air
transport system at all levels?

Interestingly, I recall a few articles a few years ago the over-the-road
trucks pay roughly half of taxes and fees for the interstate and state
highways, but they cause more than 3/4ths of wear-and-tear and damage.

When someone else foots the bill, new and more efficient processes and
technologies never seem to get implemented as quickly as when we pay our own
way (like good, mature adults).


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO