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![]() "Mike Rapoport" wrote in message link.net... "Matt Barrow" wrote in message ... Does the tax on Jet-A and other fees support the airlines usages? The passenger and fuel taxes are all mixed together. I used avgas tax and FSS because almost all the FSS users are flying piston engine airplanes. There really aren't any other fees that don't go to the airport owner. Has anyone ever done a complete breakout of costs vs. revenue of the air transport system at all levels? If you consider that most of the system exists for the airlines, with GA as an incremental user then the airlines are getting a pretty good deal. Considering the spartan facilities GA uses, compared to the regal infrastructure the airlines require, GA is dirt cheap. If you divide the cost among all users by the number of flights then GA is getting a good deal. People try to parse the facts to support their position. Another way to look at it is that GA pilots and companies with business aircraft pay income taxes and most airlines do not. And GA didn't get $$$BILLIONS in handout in the wake of 9/11. The airlines would counter that they pay wages and their employees pay taxes. It goes on forever. Cyclically. One thing is clear though; piston GA is not paying its way through fuel taxes as many believe. If the airplane burns 10GPH and flys 100hrs/yr the fuel tax is only about $200/yr which doesn't cover much of anything. Interestingly, I recall a few articles a few years ago the over-the-road trucks pay roughly half of taxes and fees for the interstate and state highways, but they cause more than 3/4ths of wear-and-tear and damage. I recall a statistic that one max weight semi truck caused as much damage as 2300cars over the same road. This implies that trucking is indeed subsidized. Trucks like to have stickers on their cab/trailers that "I paid $xxx in taxes last year", but the amounts certain;y are not coincident with the damage they cause. Never mind that many are way OVER max. Hell, I paid $900 in Colorado property tax on my bird last year and it certainly didn't go into the CAF. The railroads have to maintain their own tracks. The system doesn't change because there are more truckers than railroads. When someone else foots the bill, new and more efficient processes and technologies never seem to get implemented as quickly as when we pay our own way (like good, mature adults). Yes I would support an IFR system like in the UK. You fly without radar separation below certain altitudes and you don't have to talk to ATC. AFAIK there has never been a collision. "Midair collisions are extremely rare. In 1999, for instance, only 18 midair collisions occurred, of which 9 involved fatalities. A fatal midair collision, therefore, occurred only once in every 3 million flying hours (based on an estimated 27 million hours flown in 1999)." -- AOPA GA Fact Sheet Only two of the 18 (AIUI) were under ATC control. ?? -- Matt --------------------- Matthew W. Barrow Site-Fill Homes, LLC. Montrose, CO |
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![]() "Matt Barrow" wrote in message ... "Mike Rapoport" wrote in message link.net... "Matt Barrow" wrote in message ... Does the tax on Jet-A and other fees support the airlines usages? The passenger and fuel taxes are all mixed together. I used avgas tax and FSS because almost all the FSS users are flying piston engine airplanes. There really aren't any other fees that don't go to the airport owner. Has anyone ever done a complete breakout of costs vs. revenue of the air transport system at all levels? If you consider that most of the system exists for the airlines, with GA as an incremental user then the airlines are getting a pretty good deal. Considering the spartan facilities GA uses, compared to the regal infrastructure the airlines require, GA is dirt cheap. Not really if you consider that most airports exist soley for GA. The taxes on GA don't cover the services and facilities that GA uses exclusively If you divide the cost among all users by the number of flights then GA is getting a good deal. People try to parse the facts to support their position. Another way to look at it is that GA pilots and companies with business aircraft pay income taxes and most airlines do not. And GA didn't get $$$BILLIONS in handout in the wake of 9/11. The airlines would counter that they pay wages and their employees pay taxes. It goes on forever. Cyclically. One thing is clear though; piston GA is not paying its way through fuel taxes as many believe. If the airplane burns 10GPH and flys 100hrs/yr the fuel tax is only about $200/yr which doesn't cover much of anything. Interestingly, I recall a few articles a few years ago the over-the-road trucks pay roughly half of taxes and fees for the interstate and state highways, but they cause more than 3/4ths of wear-and-tear and damage. I recall a statistic that one max weight semi truck caused as much damage as 2300cars over the same road. This implies that trucking is indeed subsidized. Trucks like to have stickers on their cab/trailers that "I paid $xxx in taxes last year", but the amounts certain;y are not coincident with the damage they cause. Never mind that many are way OVER max. Hell, I paid $900 in Colorado property tax on my bird last year and it certainly didn't go into the CAF. The railroads have to maintain their own tracks. The system doesn't change because there are more truckers than railroads. When someone else foots the bill, new and more efficient processes and technologies never seem to get implemented as quickly as when we pay our own way (like good, mature adults). Yes I would support an IFR system like in the UK. You fly without radar separation below certain altitudes and you don't have to talk to ATC. AFAIK there has never been a collision. "Midair collisions are extremely rare. In 1999, for instance, only 18 midair collisions occurred, of which 9 involved fatalities. A fatal midair collision, therefore, occurred only once in every 3 million flying hours (based on an estimated 27 million hours flown in 1999)." -- AOPA GA Fact Sheet Only two of the 18 (AIUI) were under ATC control. ?? I don't think that any of them were during the enroute phase of flight. Mike MU-2 -- Matt --------------------- Matthew W. Barrow Site-Fill Homes, LLC. Montrose, CO |
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![]() "Mike Rapoport" wrote in message link.net... "Matt Barrow" wrote in message ... "Mike Rapoport" wrote in message link.net... "Matt Barrow" wrote in message ... Does the tax on Jet-A and other fees support the airlines usages? The passenger and fuel taxes are all mixed together. I used avgas tax and FSS because almost all the FSS users are flying piston engine airplanes. There really aren't any other fees that don't go to the airport owner. Has anyone ever done a complete breakout of costs vs. revenue of the air transport system at all levels? If you consider that most of the system exists for the airlines, with GA as an incremental user then the airlines are getting a pretty good deal. Considering the spartan facilities GA uses, compared to the regal infrastructure the airlines require, GA is dirt cheap. Not really if you consider that most airports exist soley for GA. I'd bet that Denver Intl (Frederico Pena's monument to himself) cost as much as the rest of GA airports combined The taxes on GA don't cover the services and facilities that GA uses exclusively I don't think that any of them were during the enroute phase of flight. It doesn't say. |
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On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 07:55:04 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote: snip I'd bet that Denver Intl (Frederico Pena's monument to himself) cost as much as the rest of GA airports combined Man, what a place! I arrived via road well before sunup to catch the early flight home. It seemed like the drive went on for hours when I saw a line of lights, a very long line, extending from right to left. They were the toll gates into the parking lot. I don't know how many gates, but I'd never seen that many. That parking lot probably has square miles of concrete, or it sure seemed like it. They have their own subway system and believe the signs when they tell you to hang on. Those are to keep you from ending up in a pile at the end of the car when it acellerates. I've been into ORD many times but it doesn't seem near as big as DIA. I wonder if they ever did get their multi-million dollar automated baggage facility fully functional? Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com The taxes on GA don't cover the services and facilities that GA uses exclusively I don't think that any of them were during the enroute phase of flight. It doesn't say. |
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