Folded wing tip question

a425couple wrote:
I have a old question, maybe someone can refute, or verify?

I tend to mistrust 'sea-stories' w.o. cites. Sometimes I think
they likely true, probably partly true, or unlikely.
But some good ones stick in my mind, from all categories.

Making the rounds circa 1972 was that a F4 with folding wings
(story was MC, possib. Navy) taxied out (story was at Kadena)
got clearance to take off, hit afterburners and got enough thrust
to take off. Sheesh - wingtips were still folded up. Could only
stay in air with afterburner thrust, had to eject, dumped $4 mil.
plane in East China Sea. True or not? Ever true anywhere
or anytime to anyone??

I have seen (recently sited on s.m.n.) what appears to be a
picture of a plane (A-7?) flying with tips folded, so ???



I can confirm a visiting A7E doing it out of the fuel pits at NAS
Miramar in that era. He was doing fine until he tried to turn downwind
and one panel separated. The only injury was superficial glass cuts to
a toddler in a house on the lip of a canyon when wreckage shattered the
patio door.

Rick

"Yofuri" wrote in message
I can confirm a visiting A7E doing it out of the fuel pits at NAS
Miramar in that era. He was doing fine until he tried to turn downwind
and one panel separated. The only injury was superficial glass cuts to
a toddler in a house on the lip of a canyon when wreckage shattered the
patio door. Rick

Thank you very much. Think that is the one pictured
in the link?

a425couple wrote:
"Yofuri" wrote in message

I can confirm a visiting A7E doing it out of the fuel pits at NAS
Miramar in that era. He was doing fine until he tried to turn downwind
and one panel separated. The only injury was superficial glass cuts to
a toddler in a house on the lip of a canyon when wreckage shattered the
patio door. Rick


Thank you very much. Think that is the one pictured
in the link?


Could you repeat the link? I missed it.

Rick

"Yofuri" wrote in message
a425couple wrote:
"Yofuri" wrote in message
I can confirm a visiting A7E doing it out of the fuel pits at NAS
Miramar in that era. He was doing fine until he tried to turn downwind
and one panel separated. The only injury was superficial glass cuts to
a toddler in a house on the lip of a canyon when wreckage shattered the
patio door. Rick
Thank you very much. Think that is the one pictured in the link?
Could you repeat the link? I missed it. Rick

Sure A good poster over on s.m.n. gave me this link, "
http://www.vmf235.com/f8_wingsfolded.jpg not F-4 but if I read the
photo credit right is Marine. You have to careful with Google refs ---"
Anyone know if this photo is real, and what outcome was?

"a425couple" wrote in
:


"Yofuri" wrote in message
a425couple wrote:
"Yofuri" wrote in message
I can confirm a visiting A7E doing it out of the fuel pits at NAS
Miramar in that era. He was doing fine until he tried to turn
downwind and one panel separated. The only injury was superficial
glass cuts to a toddler in a house on the lip of a canyon when
wreckage shattered the patio door. Rick
Thank you very much. Think that is the one pictured in the link?
Could you repeat the link? I missed it. Rick

Sure A good poster over on s.m.n. gave me this link, "
http://www.vmf235.com/f8_wingsfolded.jpg not F-4 but if I read the
photo credit right is Marine. You have to careful with Google refs
---" Anyone know if this photo is real, and what outcome was?

That's not an A-7; it's an F-8. Sez so right in the link. Biggest
differences - F-8 has a variable incidence wing and a pointier nose.

Dave in San Diego

I read the USAF Safety TWX on an incident where a 57th FIS F4E ;aunched
out of Rekyavik with his wings unlocked. When the bird rotated the tips
went vertical and with the sudden shift of the now modified aero center
the bird nosed up steeply. The RIO made the appropriate comment while
the AC rolled the plane inverted to get the nose back down. At the
horizon he rolled right side up and still in burner found that at 300
the tips would lie flat. (Note that USAF F4Es do not have cockpit-
folding controls, - it's all done outside, on the ground, of course.)
They punched the tanks and dumped fuel and determined from a little
test flying that they could make an approach. I forgot the exact speed
but it was doable.
So they came in flat and fast, planted the bird on the runway, slowed
enough to pop the chute and stopped okay. The WingCo had the usual talk
with the crew. He posited that the attaboy canceled the aw **** and the
crew agreed.
(A little careless maybe but not stupid). The mishap occurred because
the bird had just been painted sea grey over the usual slime and
sewage; the wings being unlocked, the telltale red pins also became
grey, and no one noticed they were sticking up when the bird was towed
from the hanagr to teh flightline - or during preflight . . . This
happened sometime around 1972-1973 because I was stationed at Bitburg
AB Germany when I read the TWX report.
Walt BJ ret ftr plt

wrote in message
oups.com...

I read the USAF Safety TWX on an incident where a 57th FIS F4E ;aunched
out of Rekyavik with his wings unlocked. When the bird rotated the tips
went vertical and with the sudden shift of the now modified aero center
the bird nosed up steeply. The RIO made the appropriate comment while
the AC rolled the plane inverted to get the nose back down. At the
horizon he rolled right side up and still in burner found that at 300
the tips would lie flat. (Note that USAF F4Es do not have cockpit-
folding controls, - it's all done outside, on the ground, of course.)


As it was on all USAF F-4s. The F-4E dispensed with hydraulic wing folding.
The hydraulic wing folding controls on earlier USAF F-4s were located on a
panel in the left main wheel well inboard.

"...telltale red pins also became grey, and no one noticed...."

Reminds me of our loss of a VF-24 pilot and plane (North American FJ-3) off
the U. S. S. Shangri La in the East China Sea. Pilot had spread the wings
but did not completely LOCK the wings. The wing fold pins were seated
keeping the folded outboard sections in place, but the cockpit lock handle
was not completely seated in the detent. The pilot had NO aileron throw but
apparently did not know it. The plane went off the catapult, began a slow
left roll and went in abeam the ship. Happened on 23 December 1956. Always
hoped the Navy did not notify his wife and two little kids until after they
had enjoyed their Christmas.

WDA

end

wrote in message
oups.com...
I read the USAF Safety TWX on an incident where a 57th FIS F4E ;aunched
out of Rekyavik with his wings unlocked. When the bird rotated the tips
went vertical and with the sudden shift of the now modified aero center
the bird nosed up steeply. The RIO made the appropriate comment while
the AC rolled the plane inverted to get the nose back down. At the
horizon he rolled right side up and still in burner found that at 300
the tips would lie flat. (Note that USAF F4Es do not have cockpit-
folding controls, - it's all done outside, on the ground, of course.)
They punched the tanks and dumped fuel and determined from a little
test flying that they could make an approach. I forgot the exact speed
but it was doable.
So they came in flat and fast, planted the bird on the runway, slowed
enough to pop the chute and stopped okay. The WingCo had the usual talk
with the crew. He posited that the attaboy canceled the aw **** and the
crew agreed.
(A little careless maybe but not stupid). The mishap occurred because
the bird had just been painted sea grey over the usual slime and
sewage; the wings being unlocked, the telltale red pins also became
grey, and no one noticed they were sticking up when the bird was towed
from the hanagr to teh flightline - or during preflight . . . This
happened sometime around 1972-1973 because I was stationed at Bitburg
AB Germany when I read the TWX report.
Walt BJ ret ftr plt

wrote:
I read the USAF Safety TWX on an incident where a 57th FIS F4E ;aunched
out of Rekyavik with his wings unlocked.

Rekjavik? Had he lost his way? Keflavik just around the bay.

Sorry. Senior moment, to which I am entitled by seniority. Kef it was.
Walt BJ