"Out of fuel, out of hope: 'Help, I'm in the water'"

I wonder what would have happened if he would have called 30 minutes
before running out of gas and had the Coast Guard giving him "Flight
Following" Maybe they could have got there before the plane sank. I
don't even know if that was a possibility. Just a thought.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
'79 Mooney 201

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message
...

Its all speculation, the poor planning was one issue, poor execution of
his way out of the problem was the other.


Poor planning is a certainty, there was no proper execution out of this
problem.

Jon Kraus wrote:

I wonder what would have happened if he would have called 30 minutes
before running out of gas and had the Coast Guard giving him "Flight
Following"

That would assume he *knew* he had only 30 minutes of fuel left.

--
Peter


















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On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:04:40 -0400, "Peter R."
wrote:

Jon Kraus wrote:

I wonder what would have happened if he would have called 30 minutes
before running out of gas and had the Coast Guard giving him "Flight
Following"

That would assume he *knew* he had only 30 minutes of fuel left.

If you listen to the ATC tapes (link posted elsewhere in this thread),
he knew he was low on fuel. He indicates that he had run one tank
dry, and only had 3-6 gallons left in the other tank.

Sure it's armchair QB'ing, but at this point, he should have been
relaying exact position and asking for the USCG chopper/ships to be
rolling.

-Nathan

"Nathan Young" wrote in message
...

If you listen to the ATC tapes (link posted elsewhere in this thread),
he knew he was low on fuel. He indicates that he had run one tank
dry, and only had 3-6 gallons left in the other tank.


Do you know what his position was when he indicated that?



Sure it's armchair QB'ing, but at this point, he should have been
relaying exact position and asking for the USCG chopper/ships to be
rolling.


That assumes he was able to determine his exact position. What navigational
capabilities did he have aboard?

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

I wonder what would have happened if he would have called 30 minutes
before running out of gas and had the Coast Guard giving him "Flight
Following" Maybe they could have got there before the plane sank. I don't
even know if that was a possibility. Just a thought.


I don't know what his route was, but thirty minutes earlier he was probably
over land east of the lake.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

I don't know what his route was, but thirty minutes earlier he was probably
over land east of the lake.

No, he would have been well offshore. The lake is about 80 nm wide at that
point, and that's if you're traveling straight across. The news said he would
have been swimming against a 3 knot headwind, so he was fighting higher winds at
altitude. Unless his Archer could true at least 175 knots, he was over water 30
minutes earlier.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:0nBce.505$yd1.85@trndny01...

No, he would have been well offshore. The lake is about 80 nm wide at that
point, and that's if you're traveling straight across. The news said he
would have been swimming against a 3 knot headwind, so he was fighting
higher winds at altitude. Unless his Archer could true at least 175 knots,
he was over water 30 minutes earlier.


You might want to run that problem again. On a direct route from Hamilton
NY to Watertown WI the lake is about 68 nm wide, not 80. According to the
NTSB he went down six miles east of the lakeshore, so the dry tanks point
was a few miles further east and dependant on altitude. He probably crossed
about 55-60 miles of the lake. The book cruise speed of the Archer II is
139 ktas but he was probably achieving something a bit less than that. The
winds at altitude are also unknown. He may have been over water 30 minutes
prior to engine stoppage, but he was certainly not well offshore.

Jon Kraus wrote:
I wonder what would have happened if he would have called 30 minutes
before running out of gas and had the Coast Guard giving him "Flight
Following" Maybe they could have got there before the plane sank. I
don't even know if that was a possibility. Just a thought.

Lake Watch Reporting Progam is available through Flight Service.
Contact FSS prior to going feet wet.
Call FSS every 10 minutes and report as necessary (High and Dry, or Mayday!)
Cancel Lake Watch when feet dry.
With the exception of Western Lake Erie where I can island hop within
gliding distance, I will not cross open water without using this service
or or talking to ATC.

"john smith" wrote in message
...

Lake Watch Reporting Progam is available through Flight Service.
Contact FSS prior to going feet wet.
Call FSS every 10 minutes and report as necessary (High and Dry, or
Mayday!)
Cancel Lake Watch when feet dry.
With the exception of Western Lake Erie where I can island hop within
gliding distance, I will not cross open water without using this service
or or talking to ATC.


It's actually called Lake Reporting Service, one of the Hazardous Area
Reporting Services provided by FSS. The descriptions of them are cleverly
hidden in the AIM in the Air Traffic Control chapter.

I suppose it's better than nothing, but radar coverage over southern Lake
Michigan is good and flight following is definitely superior.

"john smith" wrote in message
...
Jon Kraus wrote:
I wonder what would have happened if he would have called 30 minutes
before running out of gas and had the Coast Guard giving him "Flight
Following" Maybe they could have got there before the plane sank. I
don't even know if that was a possibility. Just a thought.

Lake Watch Reporting Progam is available through Flight Service.
Contact FSS prior to going feet wet.
Call FSS every 10 minutes and report as necessary (High and Dry, or
Mayday!)
Cancel Lake Watch when feet dry.
With the exception of Western Lake Erie where I can island hop within
gliding distance, I will not cross open water without using this service
or or talking to ATC.

In this case it would not have helped. Unfortunately, under the
circumstances, he was dead when the engine quit.