Draconian Club Checkrides?

I wanted to run this by everyone to see if I was being reasonable being
upset.

I started flying as a student in December, 2003. I joined a local
non-profit club to do my training and flew exclusively with them for
almost a year.

This includes approximately 50 hours of time in two C152s, including
12-15 hours of local solo time, night xc, night landings, etc.

When it came to the time where I was ready to solo xc my instructor kept
stalling, calling for more 'ground time' before I could do my stage
check, in what I believe was a combination of his inexperience and need
for a few bucks.

Anyhow, I ended up firing my CFI and completed my training at Stinson
Field in San Antonio (in C172s) while there on Air Force active duty
over the past two months. Past my written and my checkride on the first
try and now hold a full private pilot.

Now I'm back home and want to fly with the club. My last flight in the
152 with my old instructor was within 100 days or so as was my last solo
in that aircraft. I inquired about getting checked out in the clubs
C172 and they are saying two full lesson slots, probably 4 hours of
instructor time (including re-proving navigation ability) for the 172,
despite me having 14 hours in the last 60 days in a C172.

But that isn't the big kicker! They won't let me fly the C152s! They
want me to do a full checkout (2-3 hours minimum) in the VERY 152s I was
solo signed off on just 3 months prior! Doesn't this seem a little
ridiculous? They felt I was competent to fly them as a STUDENT after
the CFI said "go fly" but now that the FAA says I'm qualified to fly
without a CFI I have to do a 2-3 hour checkride in the exact same
airplane?

Does this make ANY sense to any of you? I can walk across the tarmac
and fly with the private FBO for almost the same price and they are
saying a single hour checkride for a current pilot!

Just really painful after paying monthly dues to the club for so long.
I mean, after I finished my PPL checkride at Stinson, they didn't then
say, "Well, you can fly after a checkride!"

--
Chris Schmelzer, MD
Capt, 110th Fighter Michigan ANG
University of Michigan Hospitals
Ann Arbor, MI

Hi Chris,

Club rules can be mystifying at times. I understand you're upset. I
belong to a club, and we also have strict rules about being checked out
again if we haven't flown the aircraft within 90 days, no matter how
much we may fly elsewhere. All the rules, even the mystifying ones,
are there for a reason though. Usually, a result of one specific
incident from the past and there to protect pilots and airplanes from
future repetitions.

That may or may not be the case with your club, but it's worth thinking
about.

My suggestion is to look at it like this: every flight with an
instructor is valuable. Why not go up and do something new with
him/her and challenge yourself with the lesson? You may find it pays
dividends down the road.

Best of luck to you, and congrats on that certificate!
Kay

KayInPA wrote:
All the rules, even the mystifying ones,
are there for a reason though. Usually, a result of one specific
incident from the past and there to protect pilots and airplanes from
future repetitions.

You're right Kay. Sometimes the reason is to turn checkout flights
into a profit center. You didn't say that all of the rules existed for
a "good" reason :-))

If I were the OP, I'd lose this outfit. 4 hrs for a 172 checkout is
nothing more the blantant milking. Sure, flying with an instructor may
not be a bad idea, but the fact that they're forcing a long checkout,
plus the fact that they won't let him fly in the 152 that he's
currently checked out in, raises a whole bunch of red flags.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

John Galban wrote:
You didn't say that all of the rules existed for a "good" reason :-))
Too true. There are a number of rules at my club that are, to use a
polite word, asinine.

4 hrs for a 172 checkout is nothing more the blantant milking.
It seems excessive for a known competent pilot.

Sure, flying with an instructor may not be a bad idea, but the fact
that they're forcing a long checkout, plus the fact that they won't
let him fly in the 152 that he's currently checked out in,
raises a whole bunch of red flags.
But according to the club rules, he's not currently checked out.

I agree with you. If the rules are upsetting to the OP, he should
leave the club. My guess is that his road to flying happiness will be
better found with alternate arrangements than with fighting a club's
city hall.

That said, for me personally, I didn't find the checkout rules at my
club to be restrictive. I was a brand new pilot when I joined, and
eager to learn from as many people as possible. Still am. The club
aircraft is really nice, usually available, and exceedingly
cost-effective. In exchange, I'm willing to go by club rules and in
some cases (such as with instruction), make them into positives.

I recognize that's not possible in all cases.


Kay

Chris Schmelzer wrote:
Does this make ANY sense to any of you? I can walk across the tarmac
and fly with the private FBO for almost the same price and they are
saying a single hour checkride for a current pilot!

Just really painful after paying monthly dues to the club for so long.


I understand your reticence but I would leave that Mickey Mouse outfit behind
and rent from a real FBO. No dues. You only pay for what you actually do.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Amen Mortimer!
I'd tell them to stick thier 152 where the sun doesn't shine. Like Mort
said rent for a regular FBO and pay for what you are getting, because it
sure sounds like you are getting ripped off. Really it sounds like they may
even be ****ed at you because you went somewhere else and finished. I
wouldn't give them a dime of my money.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
om...
Chris Schmelzer wrote:
Does this make ANY sense to any of you? I can walk across the tarmac
and fly with the private FBO for almost the same price and they are
saying a single hour checkride for a current pilot!

Just really painful after paying monthly dues to the club for so long.


I understand your reticence but I would leave that Mickey Mouse outfit
behind and rent from a real FBO. No dues. You only pay for what you
actually do.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Hey there Mort! I didn't know you flew (I see you in the Nursing
newsgroup)..

I will admit it sounds like THIS club is overly draconian, but not all are.

I have had the pleasure of being a member of two separate flying clubs
that assessed monthly dues, one of which continues to operate (Bay Area
Aero Club @ KLVJ and "The Flying Group" formerly of KEFD, both in/near
Houston)

Monthly dues in their latest form were about $20/month. For that fee,
you had access to a fleet that ranged as large as 10 planes (this
varied, all were leasebacks), were well maintained, less abused
(subjective, I know), MORE available and all around just nicer looking
than your typical flight school rental fleet. We had online scheduling,
true 24 hour access with keys in a lockbox, the still-functioning club
(Bay Area) truly insures the pilot, plane and occupants so that renters
insurance is not necessary (yes... I did say the PILOT was covered, no
subrogation here).

If you fly more than a few hours a month, the dues "disappear" into the
hourly cost and really arent that noticeable. The appeal to the clubs so
far has been the fleet: Many of the leasebacks have nice (430's, MFD's)
avionics packages, are clean and well appointed inside. Its not a big
deal to rent one over the weekend for a cross country trip. Most of the
local flight schools balk at a long trip in one of their planes, when it
could be making twice as many hours working instruction locally.

So.. yea.. that club in question doesn't seem to be "all that"... but...
I have to wonder.. when you (original poster) joined the club, didn't
they orient you to the organization, and explicitly describe the
check-out requirements and rules? or did you just join up and start
instruction without any knowledge of what the rules were?

Dave

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

Chris Schmelzer wrote:

Does this make ANY sense to any of you? I can walk across the tarmac
and fly with the private FBO for almost the same price and they are
saying a single hour checkride for a current pilot!

Just really painful after paying monthly dues to the club for so long.



I understand your reticence but I would leave that Mickey Mouse outfit behind
and rent from a real FBO. No dues. You only pay for what you actually do.

Does this make ANY sense to any of you? I can walk across the tarmac
and fly with the private FBO for almost the same price and they are
saying a single hour checkride for a current pilot!

Why continue to screw around with a flying club that obviously doesn't have
your interests at heart?

Either fly the pants off the FBO planes, or buy yourself a nice little
Cherokee 140/Skyhawk/152. You'll be much happier.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Keeps the CFIs busy. I remember joining a local club to fly their J-3
after I got rid of the Aeronca. Since the club normally flew 172s I had
to checkout in a 172 with a senior club CFI and then check out in the
J-3 with the one CFI who was tailwheel certified (and not "senior").
However, they had the keys to the J-3 and I wanted them so I just did
what they said. After owning a Mooney for many years it was interesting
to fly the 172.BTW: The 172 checkout was almost an hour. The J-3
checkout was just 3 landings. This was about 3 years ago.

-Robert, CFI

In article om,
"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Keeps the CFIs busy. I remember joining a local club to fly their J-3
after I got rid of the Aeronca. Since the club normally flew 172s I had
to checkout in a 172 with a senior club CFI and then check out in the
J-3 with the one CFI who was tailwheel certified (and not "senior").
However, they had the keys to the J-3 and I wanted them so I just did
what they said. After owning a Mooney for many years it was interesting
to fly the 172.BTW: The 172 checkout was almost an hour. The J-3
checkout was just 3 landings. This was about 3 years ago.

-Robert, CFI


The funny thing about it is when I went to the OTHER flight school it
was actually easier to get the key to the planes THERE than it was at my
original school/FBO!

The CFI's here are all very young, low hour types pretty fresh out of
school. The CFI's at Check-Six at Stinson are all VERY senior, my
particular instructor was in the mid-4xxx hour and the operations guy
was a former F-15 driver.

I think, like many things, experience lets you know what is important
and what isn't and allows you to go by feel as to who is a good stick
and who isn't. I don't think my local club has that ability due to
youth and inexperience!

--
Chris Schmelzer, MD
Capt, 110th Fighter Michigan ANG
University of Michigan Hospitals
Ann Arbor, MI