NTSB Preliminary report on HPN crash

Tom Fleischman k wrote:

I don't think I ever said that I assumed that.

I don't think I ever made any statement about who was manipulating the
controls on the approach. I have no idea about that.

Sorry, I thought this statement, "calm down the student pilot in the right
seat," was an implication that the student pilot was flying.

Back when I was a student pilot, one of my early instructors demonstrated a
spin to me in a C152. If there were a flying moment that would cause a
student pilot to panic, this would have been it. Instead, I remained
naively calm and jovial. My point is simply that there are probably many
student pilots who have too much trust in their instructors and do not
realize the actual risk in which they are placed.

In this accident, it *seems* logical to me that the instructor would have
been flying this particular approach. Again, I cannot imagine any student
pilot being capable of flying an approach in actual conditions, nor an
instructor allowing a pre-PPL to do so. Most likely, the NTSB will not be
able to conclude who was actually flying the approach so we will never
know.

--
Peter


















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I cannot imagine any student
pilot being capable of flying an approach in actual conditions, nor
an
instructor allowing a pre-PPL to do so.

You lack imagination. I've allowed a student pilot to fly an approach
in IMC, and he actually did quite well for a while (with a lot of
coaching, obviously). This was a much more demanding approach (night
circling NDB) in a much more demanding airplane (my Twin Comanche).
Eventually he started losing it (meaning he could no longer keep up
with what had to be done even with my coaching) and I had to take it
from him and complete the approach myself.

There's nothing wrong with an instructor allowing a student to fly an
approach in actual IMC - as long as the instructor is prepared to take
the airplane before a dangeerous situation develops.

There's no question here that the approach was mishandled, and I don't
consider it important to know who was actually manipulating the
controls. In any case, the CFI was PIC, and he was responsible for the
control inputs of the student. I suspect he simply got overloaded
trying to teach in IMC (or perhaps just fly in IMC). Either way, it
hardly matters. He overestimated his abilities, and has now paid the
ultimate price. His student paid too, and his only mistake was
overestimating the capabilities of his instructor. Sad but hardly
unique.

Michael

Michael wrote:

You lack imagination.

Lack instructing experience and knowledge, definitely, but lack
imagination? Absolutely not.

During minor outpatient surgery many years ago I was hooked up to an IV and
awaiting the arrival of the doctor. With nothing else to occupy my mind, I
started to imagine what the IV needle must have looked like inside my vein,
the tip of the submerged needle pressing against the inside wall of the
vein and the suger-water dripping out of the point to mix with my blood,
creating a pinkish hue as the mixture was carried off downstream. The
image in my mind was so vivid I then passed out. :-)

Sorry to digress but I had to rebut ...

--
Peter


















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Sound like a needle using junkie you do.

Peter R. wrote:
During minor outpatient surgery many years ago I was hooked up to an IV and
awaiting the arrival of the doctor. With nothing else to occupy my mind, I
started to imagine what the IV needle must have looked like inside my vein,
the tip of the submerged needle pressing against the inside wall of the
vein and the suger-water dripping out of the point to mix with my blood,
creating a pinkish hue as the mixture was carried off downstream. The
image in my mind was so vivid I then passed out. :-)

.....I had to digress

Sound like a needle using junkie you do.

Sound like Yoda *you* do.

--
Peter