Pilot shot in head

Matt Barrow wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
Actually,
even a machine rest won't do that as the standard 1911's tend to scatter
their hits more than 12" at 100 yards inherently.


Hmmm...last time I tried, I did about three out of four. A .44 Mag

A 1911 in .44 mag? What brand is that?


And if the pie plate
is moving at 80 MPH, the odds get MUCH worse.


See remarks about Sporting Clays....yes, we use scatter guns, but the
targets are 6", not 16 feet.

Yes, shotguns don't count. :-)

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Matt Barrow wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
Actually,
even a machine rest won't do that as the standard 1911's tend to scatter
their hits more than 12" at 100 yards inherently.


Hmmm...last time I tried, I did about three out of four. A .44 Mag

A 1911 in .44 mag? What brand is that?

It chopped my line which was supposed to say "A .44 Mag is much better at
long range shooting". Hence, the 100 yard matches and hunters.


And if the pie plate
is moving at 80 MPH, the odds get MUCH worse.


See remarks about Sporting Clays....yes, we use scatter guns, but the
targets are 6", not 16 feet.

Yes, shotguns don't count. :-)

Yes, and remember the 6" vs. 16 foot context.

I believe Mr Whiting is speaking of a standard issue 1911 Colt .45. Which
does have an awful pattern even at 50 yards. There are some mods that can be
done, as in with some of the new modified 1911's. Which very few of those
are "real" 1911's, but aftermarket copies. A Kimber 1911 come to mind. Which
is a very nice weapon with alot better patterns than it's old standard US
military version. Just a good old Colt .45! Great for close combat, but not
a reach out and touch someone kind of weapon.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech
ex-marine rifle coach

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Matt Barrow wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
Actually,
even a machine rest won't do that as the standard 1911's tend to
scatter
their hits more than 12" at 100 yards inherently.


Hmmm...last time I tried, I did about three out of four. A .44 Mag

A 1911 in .44 mag? What brand is that?

It chopped my line which was supposed to say "A .44 Mag is much better at
long range shooting". Hence, the 100 yard matches and hunters.


And if the pie plate
is moving at 80 MPH, the odds get MUCH worse.


See remarks about Sporting Clays....yes, we use scatter guns, but the
targets are 6", not 16 feet.

Yes, shotguns don't count. :-)

Yes, and remember the 6" vs. 16 foot context.

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
I believe Mr Whiting is speaking of a standard issue 1911 Colt .45. Which
does have an awful pattern even at 50 yards.

Mine is a Springfield Armory, with a bit of trigger work and my onw reloads.
At 50 yards through a Ransom rest it shoots about a 4-5" group. The load I
use has been tweaked for this particular gun and it's had a couple thousand
rounds through it.

There are some mods that can be
done, as in with some of the new modified 1911's. Which very few of those
are "real" 1911's, but aftermarket copies.

The term "1911" is for any version of the original J.M. Borwning design.

A Kimber 1911 come to mind. Which
is a very nice weapon with alot better patterns than it's old standard US
military version. Just a good old Colt .45! Great for close combat, but
not
a reach out and touch someone kind of weapon.

Which is the point I made about a .44 Mag being much better at 100 yards and
further.

Could I hit a Cessna 150 at 100 yards? Sure. Every time? Probably not.

A four inch group with a 1911 .45 is not bad at all

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
I believe Mr Whiting is speaking of a standard issue 1911 Colt .45. Which
does have an awful pattern even at 50 yards.

Mine is a Springfield Armory, with a bit of trigger work and my onw
reloads.
At 50 yards through a Ransom rest it shoots about a 4-5" group. The load I
use has been tweaked for this particular gun and it's had a couple
thousand
rounds through it.

There are some mods that can be
done, as in with some of the new modified 1911's. Which very few of those
are "real" 1911's, but aftermarket copies.

The term "1911" is for any version of the original J.M. Borwning design.

A Kimber 1911 come to mind. Which
is a very nice weapon with alot better patterns than it's old standard US
military version. Just a good old Colt .45! Great for close combat, but
not
a reach out and touch someone kind of weapon.

Which is the point I made about a .44 Mag being much better at 100 yards
and
further.

Could I hit a Cessna 150 at 100 yards? Sure. Every time? Probably not.

Oh and I almost forgot if you have an original Springfield 1911 in decent
shape she is worth a nice chunk of change

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
Oh and I almost forgot if you have an original Springfield 1911 in decent
shape she is worth a nice chunk of change

Nah, this is a new model, only about three years old.

My kid picked up an OLD Remington-Rand 1911 (WW2 surplus ??) for $50, and
even with
the crappy trigger he can do amazing things. (His old man taught him well
:~)

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
A four inch group with a 1911 .45 is not bad at all


My Wilson Combat KZ45 is even better, but three time the price.


Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
I believe Mr Whiting is speaking of a standard issue 1911 Colt .45.
Which
does have an awful pattern even at 50 yards.

Mine is a Springfield Armory, with a bit of trigger work and my onw
reloads.
At 50 yards through a Ransom rest it shoots about a 4-5" group. The load
I
use has been tweaked for this particular gun and it's had a couple
thousand
rounds through it.

There are some mods that can be
done, as in with some of the new modified 1911's. Which very few of
those
are "real" 1911's, but aftermarket copies.

The term "1911" is for any version of the original J.M. Borwning design.

A Kimber 1911 come to mind. Which
is a very nice weapon with alot better patterns than it's old standard
US
military version. Just a good old Colt .45! Great for close combat, but
not
a reach out and touch someone kind of weapon.

Which is the point I made about a .44 Mag being much better at 100 yards
and
further.

Could I hit a Cessna 150 at 100 yards? Sure. Every time? Probably not.

Matt Barrow wrote:

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...

I believe Mr Whiting is speaking of a standard issue 1911 Colt .45. Which
does have an awful pattern even at 50 yards.


Mine is a Springfield Armory, with a bit of trigger work and my onw reloads.
At 50 yards through a Ransom rest it shoots about a 4-5" group. The load I
use has been tweaked for this particular gun and it's had a couple thousand
rounds through it.

Mine is a Colt (I believe series 70, but can't remember for sure) that
is factory stock and it only groups 3-4" at 25 yards off a sandbag (I
don't have access to a machine rest. I'd say I could hit a 12" pie
plate at 100 yards maybe 50% of the time if I was shooting off a
sandbag. Shooting off-hand would probably lower than to less than 25%
of the time. That was my point.

My Super Blackhawk is much more accurate and will group about 2" at 25
yards, but even that would have a pretty low hit rate at 100 yards,
especially shooting off-hand and at a 12" target moving at 80 MPH or more!



There are some mods that can be
done, as in with some of the new modified 1911's. Which very few of those
are "real" 1911's, but aftermarket copies.


The term "1911" is for any version of the original J.M. Borwning design.

True, but very few short of match tuned will shoot less than 12" at 100
yards with factory ammo.



A Kimber 1911 come to mind. Which
is a very nice weapon with alot better patterns than it's old standard US
military version. Just a good old Colt .45! Great for close combat, but

not

a reach out and touch someone kind of weapon.


Which is the point I made about a .44 Mag being much better at 100 yards and
further.

Could I hit a Cessna 150 at 100 yards? Sure. Every time? Probably not.

The point wasn't to hit a 150, but to hit something the size of a
pilot's head! Hitting a 150 that was sitting still would be trivial.
Hitting one that was moving at 80 MPH would be tougher, but not
impossible to be sure. To consisently hit a spot the size of a human
head, would be nigh on impossible.


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Matt Barrow wrote:

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...

I believe Mr Whiting is speaking of a standard issue 1911 Colt .45.
Which
does have an awful pattern even at 50 yards.


Mine is a Springfield Armory, with a bit of trigger work and my onw
reloads.
At 50 yards through a Ransom rest it shoots about a 4-5" group. The load
I
use has been tweaked for this particular gun and it's had a couple
thousand
rounds through it.

Mine is a Colt (I believe series 70, but can't remember for sure) that
is factory stock and it only groups 3-4" at 25 yards off a sandbag (I
don't have access to a machine rest. I'd say I could hit a 12" pie
plate at 100 yards maybe 50% of the time if I was shooting off a
sandbag. Shooting off-hand would probably lower than to less than 25%
of the time. That was my point.

I shoot offhand, but brace against the support beams for the roof cover at
our range. I never could get comfortable shooting a pistol off sandbags.
Rifles, though, are a different story.

My Super Blackhawk is much more accurate and will group about 2" at 25
yards, but even that would have a pretty low hit rate at 100 yards,
especially shooting off-hand and at a 12" target moving at 80 MPH or more!

I have a Wilson Combat KZ45 which is even more accurate, but much more
expensive. Also, you probably won't get optimal accuracy with factory ammo.
They'll be good, but not your smallest groups.

There are some mods that can be
done, as in with some of the new modified 1911's. Which very few of
those
are "real" 1911's, but aftermarket copies.


The term "1911" is for any version of the original J.M. Borwning design.

True, but very few short of match tuned will shoot less than 12" at 100
yards with factory ammo.

I haven't bought factory ammo (other than for carry/defense, or .22's) in
probably 30 years. My load of choice is 5.4grains of WW-231 behind a Montana
Gold 200gr JHP, using WW military match brass.

A Kimber 1911 come to mind. Which
is a very nice weapon with alot better patterns than it's old standard
US
military version. Just a good old Colt .45! Great for close combat, but

not

a reach out and touch someone kind of weapon.


Which is the point I made about a .44 Mag being much better at 100 yards
and
further.

Could I hit a Cessna 150 at 100 yards? Sure. Every time? Probably not.

The point wasn't to hit a 150, but to hit something the size of a
pilot's head!

I doubt the dirtbag was aiming for a head shot; hitting the plane was
intentional/basic skill, hitting the guy in the head was coincidental.

Hitting a 150 that was sitting still would be trivial.
Hitting one that was moving at 80 MPH would be tougher, but not
impossible to be sure. To consisently hit a spot the size of a human
head, would be nigh on impossible.

Like I said, I doubt he was trying for a head shot.