boycott united forever

StellaStarr wrote:

You seem to think a pension is some kind of welfare.
It's money you arranged to have taken out of your paycheck, to save
up
for retirement.

You know...a "personal account."

And the "sitting around" part is supposed to be the retirement they
worked for all those years. They were wrong to plan for that?

One of us seems to be failing to understand something...

I think you missed the boat there Stella. I'm not sure what you're
describing, but it is not a pension.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"John Galban" wrote

StellaStarr wrote:
You seem to think a pension is some kind of welfare.
It's money you arranged to have taken out of your paycheck, to save
up for retirement.

I think you missed the boat there Stella. I'm not sure what you're
describing, but it is not a pension.

From the Wikipedia...the on-line encyclopedia:

A "pension plan" or "retirement plan" is an arrangment by which an employer
(for example, a corporation, labor union, government agency) provides
income to its employees after retirement. Pension plans are a form of
"deferred compensation" and became popular in the United States during the
1930s, when wage freezes prohibited direct pay (in the form of salary) to
increase.

John...note the "deferred compensation" part. Sounds sorta like what
Stella wrote.

Bob Moore

Bob Moore wrote:
From the Wikipedia...the on-line encyclopedia:

A "pension plan" or "retirement plan" is an arrangment by which an
employer
(for example, a corporation, labor union, government agency) provides

income to its employees after retirement. Pension plans are a form of

"deferred compensation" and became popular in the United States
during the
1930s, when wage freezes prohibited direct pay (in the form of
salary) to
increase.

John...note the "deferred compensation" part. Sounds sorta like what

Stella wrote.


The deferred compensation described sounds like the company promising
to pay you later (originally because they couldn't afford to pay now).
Stella's description sounded like some sort of individual account, like
a 401K, where actual earned dollars (not deferred) are used.

A 401K (or similar individual retirement account) is usually not
under the direct control of a company, and cannot be squandered by
them. A promise by a company to pay your salary after retirement is
just that. Words.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"John Galban" wrote

The deferred compensation described sounds like the company promising
to pay you later (originally because they couldn't afford to pay now).

Nope... at PanAm, at contract time, there were just so many dollars on
the table, take them now or take them later. We, the pilots had our
choice, more pay...more vacation...more health care...or more pension,
take your choice. At PanAm, we usually sacraficed pay for better working
conditions....and our working conditions were great!

A 401K (or similar individual retirement account) is usually not
under the direct control of a company, and cannot be squandered by
them. A promise by a company to pay your salary after retirement is
just that. Words.

Not at PanAm, the pilot group (unlike the other employee groups) insisted
that our pension plan be held by an outside source, in this case,
Prudential Insurance, and PanAm paid monthly on behalf of each of us. We
felt fairly safe when the axe fell on PanAm.....WRONG! Prudential went
to the NY Federal Court and obtained permission to dump the obligation
off to the PBGC. You can't trust anyone.

Bob Moore

On Fri, 13 May 2005 21:24:24 GMT, Bob Moore
wrote:

Not at PanAm, the pilot group (unlike the other employee groups) insisted
that our pension plan be held by an outside source, in this case,

You must thank the wisdom of your negotiators every time you see the
Pan Am logo on a rinky-dink start-up airline or training program.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
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"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 122...
Not at PanAm, the pilot group (unlike the other employee groups) insisted
that our pension plan be held by an outside source, in this case,
Prudential Insurance, and PanAm paid monthly on behalf of each of us. We
felt fairly safe when the axe fell on PanAm.....WRONG! Prudential went
to the NY Federal Court and obtained permission to dump the obligation
off to the PBGC. You can't trust anyone.


What was their "justification" for dumping it off, do you recall?

"John Galban" wrote in message
oups.com...

Bob Moore wrote:
From the Wikipedia...the on-line encyclopedia:

A "pension plan" or "retirement plan" is an arrangment by which an
employer
(for example, a corporation, labor union, government agency) provides

income to its employees after retirement. Pension plans are a form of

"deferred compensation" and became popular in the United States
during the
1930s, when wage freezes prohibited direct pay (in the form of
salary) to
increase.

John...note the "deferred compensation" part. Sounds sorta like what

Stella wrote.


The deferred compensation described sounds like the company promising
to pay you later (originally because they couldn't afford to pay now).
Stella's description sounded like some sort of individual account, like
a 401K, where actual earned dollars (not deferred) are used.

Quite!! Mostly, deferred compensation is delayed just a few years to smooth
out cash flow for tax purposes.



A 401K (or similar individual retirement account) is usually not
under the direct control of a company, and cannot be squandered by
them. A promise by a company to pay your salary after retirement is
just that. Words.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Pension plans are a form of
"deferred compensation" and became popular in the United States during the
1930s, when wage freezes prohibited direct pay (in the form of salary) to
increase.

That's the problem with Wikipedia. Some damn fool typing faster than
his mind could follow!

I assure you, there were no wage freezes in the 1930, nor were they
showing any tendency to increase.. Wages were going *down* in the
1930s!

What the Wiki guy meant to say was "during World War II," but he
probably couldn't remember what number it was (I, II, III?).



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

Pension plans are a form of
"deferred compensation" and became popular in the United States during
the
1930s, when wage freezes prohibited direct pay (in the form of salary) to
increase.

That's the problem with Wikipedia. Some damn fool typing faster than
his mind could follow!

I assure you, there were no wage freezes in the 1930, nor were they
showing any tendency to increase.. Wages were going *down* in the
1930s!

What the Wiki guy meant to say was "during World War II," but he
probably couldn't remember what number it was (I, II, III?).

Yup.

And one solution was medical insurance benefits.

And the rest is history.