Circle to land question

Lighten up man. I stated I did not have the sectional and you never stated
that it was under the C airspace.

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 May 2005 17:10:18 -0400, "Paul Lynch" wrote:

The sectional may also show that MBO is actually in or
partially in the surface to 4000AGL Class C airspace since it is so close
to
Jackson. If that is the case, then the viz and cloud clearance
requirements
would preclude that VFR traffic from LEGALLY operating.

I reviewed data prior to MY posting which indicates the contrary to your
assumption.

With regard to your specific statement regarding the CCA, over MBO the
floor of the CCA is at 1700'MSL (or 1374' AGL).


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On Sat, 14 May 2005 18:15:48 -0400, "Paul Lynch" wrote:

Lighten up man. I stated I did not have the sectional and you never stated
that it was under the C airspace.

Sorry about that. After I typed and hit send I realized it sounded
harsh. And I did not intend that. Usually I check my posts for that sort
of thing, but I was in a hurry.




Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

No problem. I may be oversensitive from some other newsgroups where the
shotguns are always out and blasting away!


"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 May 2005 18:15:48 -0400, "Paul Lynch" wrote:

Lighten up man. I stated I did not have the sectional and you never
stated
that it was under the C airspace.

Sorry about that. After I typed and hit send I realized it sounded
harsh. And I did not intend that. Usually I check my posts for that sort
of thing, but I was in a hurry.




Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Y'All,
Here are some thoughts that I have not yet posted to my web site.
Would appreciate any additions.
Gene Whitt
Flying in Circles IFR

---Circling approaches are an option to be avoided in times of reduced
visibility

---Circling requires that you have the runway in sight at all times

---You cannot leave the circling MDA unless able to descend to the runway

---You must choose the circle before descending below its MDA

---Circling at night, in low visibility and exposed to disorientation is a
lost poker hand


---The notes restricting just where circling is allowed is usually a clue

---Don't ask for a circling approach where ceilings are not well above
circling minimums

---By keeping your distance from the airport until turning final you avoid 'killer'
bank angles

---Being IFR in VFR conditions at an airport does NOT give you any special
'rights'

---Go missed if you lose visual of the runway

Gene Whitt wrote:
Y'All,
Here are some thoughts that I have not yet posted to my web site.
Would appreciate any additions.

I'd add a note that although it is often recommended that one not descend below
MDA until you are aligned on the final, there are some circling approaches where
following this policy will cause you to miss, since at the minimum permissible
visibility, you will be too high to descend to the runway.

Gene Whitt
Flying in Circles IFR

---Circling approaches are an option to be avoided in times of reduced
visibility

---Circling requires that you have the runway in sight at all times

---You cannot leave the circling MDA unless able to descend to the runway

---You must choose the circle before descending below its MDA

"the" - "to" ? You must choose to circle... ?


---Circling at night, in low visibility and exposed to disorientation is a
lost poker hand


---The notes restricting just where circling is allowed is usually a clue

---Don't ask for a circling approach where ceilings are not well above
circling minimums

---By keeping your distance from the airport until turning final you avoid 'killer'
bank angles

---Being IFR in VFR conditions at an airport does NOT give you any special
'rights'

---Go missed if you lose visual of the runway

Gene,

Although I agree that circling approaches at minimums are arguably one of
the most dangerous things a GA IFR pilot can do, I feel that with proper
training, briefing and precautions, they can be safely accomplished.

It gets into the area of trying to teach judgement.

--ron


On Mon, 16 May 2005 15:08:09 GMT, "Gene Whitt"
wrote:

Y'All,
Here are some thoughts that I have not yet posted to my web site.
Would appreciate any additions.
Gene Whitt
Flying in Circles IFR

---Circling approaches are an option to be avoided in times of reduced
visibility

Circling approaches are an option to be approached with extreme caution in
times of reduced visibility


---Circling requires that you have the runway in sight at all times

---You cannot leave the circling MDA unless able to descend to the runway

USING NORMAL MANEUVERS AND AT A NORMAL RATE OF SPEED

---You must choose the circle before descending below its MDA

---Circling at night, in low visibility and exposed to disorientation is a
POTENTIALLY LOSING POKER HAND


---The notes restricting just where circling is allowed is usually a clue

---Don't ask for a circling approach where ceilings are not well above
circling minimums
UNLESS YOU ARE CONFIDENT OF YOUR ABILITIES; AND CURRENT WITH THE PROCEDURE.

---By keeping your distance from the airport until turning final you avoid 'killer'
bank angles

---Being IFR in VFR conditions at an airport does NOT give you any special
'rights'

Add emphasis to this one (above)


---Go missed if you lose visual of the runway
AT ANY TIME, EVEN IF JUST BRIEFLY.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On Mon, 16 May 2005 15:08:09 GMT, "Gene Whitt"
wrote:

Y'All,
Here are some thoughts that I have not yet posted to my web site.
Would appreciate any additions.
Gene Whitt

Oh, and I'd add:

If you don't have the runway in sight prior to the MDA, you may NOT be able
to make a successful landing using normal maneuvers (a requirement to
operate below the MDA).


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

If you don't have the runway in sight prior to the MDA, you may NOT be able
to make a successful landing using normal maneuvers (a requirement to
operate below the MDA).

I'm sure Gene understands what you are saying, but for my benefit, could you
elaborate a little on this statement? Why is this true?

Thanks.

Dave

Dave Butler wrote in news:1116264343.869268@sj-nntpcache-5:

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

If you don't have the runway in sight prior to the MDA, you may NOT
be able to make a successful landing using normal maneuvers (a
requirement to operate below the MDA).

I'm sure Gene understands what you are saying, but for my benefit,
could you elaborate a little on this statement? Why is this true?

Cloud bases are seldom perfectly level. They are lower in some places
than in others. If you get the airport in sight right at MDA, then it's
likely that there will be areas where the cloud bases will be below MDA,
and you'll probably fly through them as you circle.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

On Mon, 16 May 2005 13:28:42 -0400, Dave Butler wrote:

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

If you don't have the runway in sight prior to the MDA, you may NOT be able
to make a successful landing using normal maneuvers (a requirement to
operate below the MDA).

I'm sure Gene understands what you are saying, but for my benefit, could you
elaborate a little on this statement? Why is this true?

Thanks.

Dave

I miswrote a bit. In addition to what others have written, what I really
meant to write was that "if you don't have the airport in sight prior to
the MAP (missed approach point) ..."

And the reason for that has to do with geometry. The MAP may be too close
and to allow for normal maneuvers to land. (And using normal maneuvers is
a requirement of 91.175)

Sorry about the confusion.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)