Instrument training

On 5/19/2005 9:46 AM, Robert M. Gary wrote:

Flying in the clouds is fun. Instrument training sucks, I don't think
anyone likes it. You're paying to fly but you can't even see outside.

-Robert, CFI


Instrument Training Sucks? I don't know about that. Perhaps I just
have a hard time separating the "what I have to do now to get there"
from the "what I'll be able to do once I get there" ... but I'm enjoying
the training.

.... of course, I'm only at the beginning (10.4 hours). I'm reasonably
proficient at Attitude Instrument Flying and have just started on
VOR/NDB nav, so we'll see how I feel when things really start popping.

I think my instructor is at least a part of what is making the
training fun.

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Student
Sacramento, CA

Mark Hansen wrote:
... of course, I'm only at the beginning (10.4 hours). I'm reasonably
proficient at Attitude Instrument Flying and have just started on
VOR/NDB nav, so we'll see how I feel when things really start popping.

Kudos to your instructor for making sure you've got BAI down pat
before moving onto navigation. If you've still got to give any real
thought to holding heading and altitude, it's too early to move onto
other stuff. I think a lot of instructors push straight on to
approaches before the student is really ready.

I have to wonder, though, if spending any time on NDB skills really
makes sense these days. VOR, yes, but NDB???

Roy Smith wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote:
I have to wonder, though, if spending any time on NDB skills really
makes sense these days. VOR, yes, but NDB???

Roy,

What are you asking? Am I interpreting my October 2004 ASA PTS wrong?
Can't the examiner choose an NDB IAP?

a.

He can't if the plane you are flying is not equipped with an ADF. My 3
approaches were LOC, VOR and ILS.

If it's in the plane, he can ask you to demonstrate it's use.

wrote:

Roy Smith wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:
I have to wonder, though, if spending any time on NDB skills really
makes sense these days. VOR, yes, but NDB???


Roy,

What are you asking? Am I interpreting my October 2004 ASA PTS wrong?
Can't the examiner choose an NDB IAP?

a.

In article .com,
wrote:

Roy Smith wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote:
I have to wonder, though, if spending any time on NDB skills really
makes sense these days. VOR, yes, but NDB???

Roy,

What are you asking? Am I interpreting my October 2004 ASA PTS wrong?
Can't the examiner choose an NDB IAP?

a.

Not if you don't have an ADF in the airplane :-)

Well, now I'm thinking.

Who is authorized to paste an INOP sticker on avionics? And of course
removing the sticker later?

Sure I could remove the ADF. But, I have an RNAV and AP too (the RNAV
contains the localizer converter so it cant be removed).

This could be sweet :-)

a.

Roy Smith wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:

... of course, I'm only at the beginning (10.4 hours). I'm reasonably
proficient at Attitude Instrument Flying and have just started on
VOR/NDB nav, so we'll see how I feel when things really start popping.


Kudos to your instructor for making sure you've got BAI down pat
before moving onto navigation. If you've still got to give any real
thought to holding heading and altitude, it's too early to move onto
other stuff. I think a lot of instructors push straight on to
approaches before the student is really ready.

I have to wonder, though, if spending any time on NDB skills really
makes sense these days. VOR, yes, but NDB???


Well, one reason is that it shows pretty quickly if you REALLY can hold
a heading, altitude and do some simple mental math simultaneously! :-)

I agree that spending a lot of time on NDB approaches is probably a
waste, but I still think learning to navigate accurately using an ADF is
good basic training.


Matt

I sometimes wonder about using NDB approaches. Believe it or not, many
charter airlines have to rely on NDB's to fly approaches into airports
below VFR. Instrument training is definately challenging but its worth
it if in fact you will use it. The best thing to stay current is
whenever you fly a cross-country, file it as an instrument flight plan
and bring a buddy along with at least a PPC in the same category,
class, etc. as a safety pilot. If its VFR out, great, you have
something besides pilotage to double-check your course and if there's
IMC ahead, then you know you're in the clear because you are already on
the IFR flight plan (excluding, icing, TS or any adverse weather). Even
in VFR, with a safety pilot you can practice Instrument Approaches
under the hood and maintain currency.

I'm exaggerating of course. It doesn't "suck" but its more fun to fly
when you can see outside. As a CFI I find instrument instruction *much*
easier than primary. Not only are the students more commited and
capable but its easier than actually flying IFR because you're not the
one trying to hold the plane right-side up.

-Robert, CFI

On 5/19/2005 1:23 PM, Robert M. Gary wrote:

I'm exaggerating of course. It doesn't "suck" but its more fun to fly
when you can see outside. As a CFI I find instrument instruction *much*
easier than primary. Not only are the students more commited and
capable but its easier than actually flying IFR because you're not the
one trying to hold the plane right-side up.

-Robert, CFI


Well, I am often hit with the realization that there is stuff to
see out there. For example, I often here "Wow, that sure looks
nice tonight..." to which I just respond "I really wouldn't know" ;-)

Perhaps my CFII is really testing me, to be sure I'm not looking ;-)

During one flight, there was a traffic alert, and the CFII was unable
to spot the other airplane. He finally told me to "head for that
freeway over there". I had to laugh. I told him "Well, I have no
idea where that is, but based on the reported location of the
traffic, I'll fly heading XXX until you decide where you want to
vector me" ;-)

Boy ... I really am having fun!

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Student
Sacramento, CA