ADIZ pilot's ticket revoked

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Matt Barrow wrote:

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Roger
wrote:
On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:40:25 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:

There is an audit trail both on the PC (unless it's erased) and on
Duats (Session and Transaction number).


Only problem is they never claimed to have checked Duats and that's
the
only one that officially counts.


Quite! He said he checked weather and NOTAMS on some "unofficial" web
site.
IIRC, he never mentioned if the "other" web site showed the RA.

If the feds wanted to verify his story, they'd have to do a complete
disk
recovery and it's not likely they would do so in a relatively trivial
case
such as this. I suspect his lawyer knows this and used that excuse as a
dodge against a negligence action.

I don't use DUATS either, but I print everything I do get, weather,
TAFs,
maps, _everything_, and keep it in a flight folio.

That won't do you much good in a legal battle; only DUATS or a call to
FS is an official CYA.

It depends if the battle was a criminal action or a negligence action.

I'd rather have the actual DOCUMENTS than just a log that said I did in fact
call for a briefing. And yes, I can print from DUATS, but until recently
(IIRC) all you could do was screen dumps. I don't know when they changed,
but I remember when all you could do was accesss them from a dumb terminal
and printing was impossible.

I check weather etc. elsewhere than finish with DUATS for a scan of
NOTAMS and PIREPS and to get my official square checked.

It may be up to the second and the most thorough but it's isn't "Official"
as far as I know (hanger lawyers, what say??).

Could you prove that you did anything more than just scan the data on the
screen?

Matt Barrow wrote:

I'd rather have the actual DOCUMENTS than just a log that said I did in fact
call for a briefing. And yes, I can print from DUATS, but until recently
(IIRC) all you could do was screen dumps. I don't know when they changed,
but I remember when all you could do was accesss them from a dumb terminal
and printing was impossible.

If you access the raw text service with telnet, and use any of the modern
terminal emulators, you can easily get a text file that you can browse with your
favorite text editor, print, run post-processing filters, etc...

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1117036890.671631@sj-nntpcache-5...
Matt Barrow wrote:

I'd rather have the actual DOCUMENTS than just a log that said I did in
fact
call for a briefing. And yes, I can print from DUATS, but until recently
(IIRC) all you could do was screen dumps. I don't know when they
changed,
but I remember when all you could do was accesss them from a dumb
terminal
and printing was impossible.

If you access the raw text service with telnet, and use any of the modern
terminal emulators, you can easily get a text file that you can browse
with your
favorite text editor, print, run post-processing filters, etc...

Whoopie do!!

If I had a Model-T Ford, I could hand crank the engine! :~)

Matt Barrow wrote:

Whoopie do!!

If I had a Model-T Ford, I could hand crank the engine! :~)

Do as you wish.

In rec.aviation.owning Matt Barrow wrote:

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Matt Barrow wrote:

snip

I check weather etc. elsewhere than finish with DUATS for a scan of
NOTAMS and PIREPS and to get my official square checked.

It may be up to the second and the most thorough but it's isn't "Official"
as far as I know (hanger lawyers, what say??).

DUATS has been an official briefing for a few years now.

Could you prove that you did anything more than just scan the data on the
screen?

No more than you can prove you were listening when you called FS.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Matt Barrow wrote:

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Matt Barrow wrote:

snip

I check weather etc. elsewhere than finish with DUATS for a scan of
NOTAMS and PIREPS and to get my official square checked.

It may be up to the second and the most thorough but it's isn't
"Official"
as far as I know (hanger lawyers, what say??).

DUATS has been an official briefing for a few years now.

Site?


Could you prove that you did anything more than just scan the data on
the
screen?

No more than you can prove you were listening when you called FS.


Which is why I print everything.

In rec.aviation.owning Matt Barrow wrote:

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Matt Barrow wrote:

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Matt Barrow wrote:

snip

I check weather etc. elsewhere than finish with DUATS for a scan of
NOTAMS and PIREPS and to get my official square checked.

It may be up to the second and the most thorough but it's isn't
"Official"
as far as I know (hanger lawyers, what say??).

DUATS has been an official briefing for a few years now.

Site?

http://www.duats.com/faq.html

"When getting a briefing on DUATS, is this considered to be a legal
pre-flight briefing, with the same standing as a briefing I'd get by
calling Flight Service?

Yes. A DUATS route briefing contains the same elements as a route
briefing which is provided by an FAA Briefer. The briefing is recorded
by DUATS, and your receipt of the data can be proven, should the need
arise. (Of course, this requires you to sign on to DUATS using your own
DUATS Access Code or Personal Access code!) The DUAT service is paid for
by the FAA, and is certified by the FAA as being equivalent to a live
Flight Service Specialist for pre-flight briefings."

Good enough for you?

Could you prove that you did anything more than just scan the data on
the
screen?

No more than you can prove you were listening when you called FS.


Which is why I print everything.

Which is totally, absolutely useless for legal purposes.

Only a FAA or a DUATS briefing counts.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Matt Barrow wrote:

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Matt Barrow wrote:

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Matt Barrow
wrote:

snip

I check weather etc. elsewhere than finish with DUATS for a scan
of
NOTAMS and PIREPS and to get my official square checked.

It may be up to the second and the most thorough but it's isn't
"Official"
as far as I know (hanger lawyers, what say??).

DUATS has been an official briefing for a few years now.

Site?

http://www.duats.com/faq.html

"When getting a briefing on DUATS, is this considered to be a legal
pre-flight briefing, with the same standing as a briefing I'd get by
calling Flight Service?

Yes. A DUATS route briefing contains the same elements as a route
briefing which is provided by an FAA Briefer. The briefing is recorded
by DUATS, and your receipt of the data can be proven, should the need
arise. (Of course, this requires you to sign on to DUATS using your own
DUATS Access Code or Personal Access code!) The DUAT service is paid for
by the FAA, and is certified by the FAA as being equivalent to a live
Flight Service Specialist for pre-flight briefings."

Good enough for you?

Could you prove that you did anything more than just scan the data
on
the
screen?

No more than you can prove you were listening when you called FS.


Which is why I print everything.

Which is totally, absolutely useless for legal purposes.

Only a FAA or a DUATS briefing counts.

Where is that documented?

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

In rec.aviation.owning Dave Stadt wrote:

wrote in message
...

snip

Only a FAA or a DUATS briefing counts.

Where is that documented?

Which part? That you need a briefing, that it has to be "official" or
that FS and DUATS are the only briefings that count?

91.103 says you need a briefing and contains the catch all of "all
available information concerning that flight" which to the FAA enforcers
means weather, NOTAMs, TFRs, etc.

AIM 5-1-1 says FS or DUATS.

There was a proposed AC to add other services; I don't know if it was
approved.

There have been articles on AOPA about the consequences of not using
the "official" sources; a search should find them.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.owning Dave Stadt wrote:

wrote in message
...

snip

Only a FAA or a DUATS briefing counts.

Where is that documented?

Which part? That you need a briefing, that it has to be "official" or
that FS and DUATS are the only briefings that count?

91.103 says you need a briefing and contains the catch all of "all
available information concerning that flight" which to the FAA enforcers
means weather, NOTAMs, TFRs, etc.

That's not what 91.103 says.

AIM 5-1-1 says FS or DUATS.

It suggests FSS or DUATS.

There was a proposed AC to add other services; I don't know if it was
approved.

I have seen FAA statements to that effect but only for part 91 flights.