"normal" procedure for pop-up filing

S Herman wrote:



This is for IR pilots only, right? A non-IR pilot cannot file an IFR
flight plan, can they?

Nothing prevents that. The only rules are that you can not operate
under IFR (or conditions less than VFR). There's no prohibition on
what flight plans you file. You can file to fly B-747's at the flight
levels if you really want.

On Wed, 25 May 2005 14:23:46 -0400, Ron Natalie
wrote:

S Herman wrote:



This is for IR pilots only, right? A non-IR pilot cannot file an IFR
flight plan, can they?

Nothing prevents that. The only rules are that you can not operate
under IFR (or conditions less than VFR). There's no prohibition on
what flight plans you file. You can file to fly B-747's at the flight
levels if you really want.

So a non-IR pilot can file IFR, but cannot then execute that flight
plan, even if VFR conditions exist at all points of the flight?

How do IR students practice approaches, etc. when they don't have the
CFII aboard? With a safety pilot?

S Herman wrote:
On Wed, 25 May 2005 14:23:46 -0400, Ron Natalie
wrote:


S Herman wrote:



This is for IR pilots only, right? A non-IR pilot cannot file an IFR
flight plan, can they?

Nothing prevents that. The only rules are that you can not operate
under IFR (or conditions less than VFR). There's no prohibition on
what flight plans you file. You can file to fly B-747's at the flight
levels if you really want.


So a non-IR pilot can file IFR, but cannot then execute that flight
plan, even if VFR conditions exist at all points of the flight?

Accepting a clearance without an instrument rating (and currency, and
appropriate equipment, and maybe some other things) is not allowed. That's
probably what you meant by "execute".


How do IR students practice approaches, etc. when they don't have the
CFII aboard? With a safety pilot?

They practice instrument procedures under VFR. Instrument rated pilots may
actually obtain an instrument clearance and do practice approaches under IFR,
but if the meteorological conditions allow, instrument practice is often done VFR.

S Herman wrote:
So a non-IR pilot can file IFR, but cannot then execute that flight
plan, even if VFR conditions exist at all points of the flight?

That's correct. You have to be IFR rated to accept an IFR clearance
(i.e. to act as PIC under IFR). On the other hand, anybody can file
an IFR flight plan. You don't need to be PIC to be a data-entry
clerk.

How do IR students practice approaches, etc. when they don't have the
CFII aboard? With a safety pilot?

If the safety pilot is capable and willing to be be PIC under IFR,
they could do that. But, the answer you were probably looking for is
that you can just ask for a "practice" approach:

"New York Approach, Archer 25629 requests practice ILS 16 into White
Plains".

"Archer 25629, fly heading 180 to intercept the localizer, maintain
3000 until established, cleared ILS 16, maintain VFR at all times".

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
S Herman wrote:
So a non-IR pilot can file IFR, but cannot then execute that flight
plan, even if VFR conditions exist at all points of the flight?

That's correct. You have to be IFR rated to accept an IFR clearance
(i.e. to act as PIC under IFR). On the other hand, anybody can file
an IFR flight plan. You don't need to be PIC to be a data-entry
clerk.

How do IR students practice approaches, etc. when they don't have the
CFII aboard? With a safety pilot?

If the safety pilot is capable and willing to be be PIC under IFR,
they could do that. But, the answer you were probably looking for is
that you can just ask for a "practice" approach:

The safety pilot would have to be IFR rated.

In article ,
"Guillermo" wrote:

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
S Herman wrote:
So a non-IR pilot can file IFR, but cannot then execute that flight
plan, even if VFR conditions exist at all points of the flight?

That's correct. You have to be IFR rated to accept an IFR clearance
(i.e. to act as PIC under IFR). On the other hand, anybody can file
an IFR flight plan. You don't need to be PIC to be a data-entry
clerk.

How do IR students practice approaches, etc. when they don't have the
CFII aboard? With a safety pilot?

If the safety pilot is capable and willing to be be PIC under IFR,
they could do that. But, the answer you were probably looking for is
that you can just ask for a "practice" approach:

The safety pilot would have to be IFR rated.

Nope, just has to be rated for the type aircraft being operated and have
a current medical. Doesn't have to be IFR rated or current.

rg

Ron Garret wrote:


If the safety pilot is capable and willing to be be PIC under IFR,
they could do that. But, the answer you were probably looking for is
that you can just ask for a "practice" approach:

The safety pilot would have to be IFR rated.


Nope, just has to be rated for the type aircraft being operated and have
a current medical. Doesn't have to be IFR rated or current.

He does if he's ALSO going to PIC under IFR as the previous post says.
He needs to meet BOTH the requirements of Safety Pilot (category and
class ratings) and those of an IFR PIC.

In article ,
Ron Natalie wrote:

Ron Garret wrote:


If the safety pilot is capable and willing to be be PIC under IFR,
they could do that. But, the answer you were probably looking for is
that you can just ask for a "practice" approach:

The safety pilot would have to be IFR rated.


Nope, just has to be rated for the type aircraft being operated and have
a current medical. Doesn't have to be IFR rated or current.

He does if he's ALSO going to PIC under IFR as the previous post says.
He needs to meet BOTH the requirements of Safety Pilot (category and
class ratings) and those of an IFR PIC.

Oops, that's right. I didn't pay attention to the context of the
comment. My bad.

rg

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Guillermo" wrote:

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
S Herman wrote:
So a non-IR pilot can file IFR, but cannot then execute that flight
plan, even if VFR conditions exist at all points of the flight?

That's correct. You have to be IFR rated to accept an IFR clearance
(i.e. to act as PIC under IFR). On the other hand, anybody can file
an IFR flight plan. You don't need to be PIC to be a data-entry
clerk.

How do IR students practice approaches, etc. when they don't have
the
CFII aboard? With a safety pilot?

If the safety pilot is capable and willing to be be PIC under IFR,
they could do that. But, the answer you were probably looking for is
that you can just ask for a "practice" approach:

The safety pilot would have to be IFR rated.

Nope, just has to be rated for the type aircraft being operated and have
a current medical. Doesn't have to be IFR rated or current.

To fly under Instrument Flight Rules you have to have an IFR rated pilot on
board, even if you ever enter IMC. I guess either the SP or the control
manipulator have to be IR? That person would be the PIC if flying under IFR.

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...

If the safety pilot is capable and willing to be be PIC under IFR,
they could do that. But, the answer you were probably looking for is
that you can just ask for a "practice" approach:


The safety pilot would have to be IFR rated.


Nope, just has to be rated for the type aircraft being operated and have
a current medical. Doesn't have to be IFR rated or current.


To operate under the conditions stated, with an IFR student on an IFR flight
plan, the safety pilot would have to be IFR rated.