Who does flight plans?

Maule Driver wrote:


But it really came into focus when I flew one of my last contests in
Mifflin PA. It attracted a bunch of guys from the left coast who were
flying in the NE for the first time. Their discomfort with both flying
and navigating the terrain was obvious and it effected their
performance enormously - for a couple of days anyway.

I never have discomfort navigating, but I often have discomfort when
looking for an emergency landing site and finding absolutely nothing
hospitable, especially from west of N38 to nearly ERI! The thought of
full stalling into the trees has just never given me great comfort. :-)

Matt

On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 23:29:42 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:

Maule Driver wrote:


But it really came into focus when I flew one of my last contests in
Mifflin PA. It attracted a bunch of guys from the left coast who were
flying in the NE for the first time. Their discomfort with both flying
and navigating the terrain was obvious and it effected their
performance enormously - for a couple of days anyway.

I never have discomfort navigating, but I often have discomfort when
looking for an emergency landing site and finding absolutely nothing
hospitable, especially from west of N38 to nearly ERI! The thought of
full stalling into the trees has just never given me great comfort. :-)

Matt

Some years ago the BBC was filming, in Canada, from a light aircraft
(not sure if 4 or 6 seat) when the aircraft was unable to climb.
I assume due to downdraft exceeding aircraft climb. The aircraft was
descending and the pilot had no option but to fly into a forrest. The
outside camera was torn off as it went into the trees but the
cameraman inside kept filming the accident. You could see the
professionalism of the pilot as he flew the aircraft all the way to
the crash. There was one point where you could even see a slight
deviation as the pilot slightly maneuvered between the trees.

The result was not a disaster and the aircraft came to rest in the
trees with the most damage being done to the passengers when trying to
climb out of the trees. Once on the ground the presenter decided to do
a piece to camera. This was an amazing piece of filming and shows that
you should always 'Fly the plane' :-)

I've been in, seen and been around the aftermath of a few landings in
the trees - gliders and SELs. No injuries in the gliders, light
injuries in the SELs.

The gliders stayed in the canopy (except mine - stunted trees) and the
SELs came to rest on the ground - 2X the wt and twice the wing perhaps

No question the most damage to the gliders was removal from the trees
(and a loss of pilot dignity for the 70+ yo we had winch down with a
stop for pics half way down, hee hee.

The take-away message is "fly it in, don't stall it in". As long as you
fly it in, seems to be very surviveable. Stall it or spin/dive it seems
to be another matter. Mininum speed/energy is different than a stall.

wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 23:29:42 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:


Maule Driver wrote:

Matt

Some years ago the BBC was filming, in Canada, from a light aircraft
(not sure if 4 or 6 seat) when the aircraft was unable to climb.
I assume due to downdraft exceeding aircraft climb. The aircraft was
descending and the pilot had no option but to fly into a forrest. The
outside camera was torn off as it went into the trees but the
cameraman inside kept filming the accident. You could see the
professionalism of the pilot as he flew the aircraft all the way to
the crash. There was one point where you could even see a slight
deviation as the pilot slightly maneuvered between the trees.

The result was not a disaster and the aircraft came to rest in the
trees with the most damage being done to the passengers when trying to
climb out of the trees. Once on the ground the presenter decided to do
a piece to camera. This was an amazing piece of filming and shows that
you should always 'Fly the plane' :-)

"Maule Driver" wrote in

I've been in, seen and been around the aftermath of a few landings in the
trees - gliders and SELs. No injuries in the gliders, light injuries in
the SELs.

That aside, does anyone know anyone whose ass was saved by the pilotage and
dead reckoning skills taught at the PPL and CPL level? I do.

moo

In article , Happy Dog wrote:
That aside, does anyone know anyone whose ass was saved by the pilotage and
dead reckoning skills taught at the PPL and CPL level? I do.

There's a very good story in one of the ILAFFT books from a military
instructor who had a total radio and electrical failure in hard IMC, and
dead reckoned himself out of trouble.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Dylan Smith wrote:

In article , Happy Dog wrote:

That aside, does anyone know anyone whose ass was saved by the pilotage and
dead reckoning skills taught at the PPL and CPL level? I do.


There's a very good story in one of the ILAFFT books from a military
instructor who had a total radio and electrical failure in hard IMC, and
dead reckoned himself out of trouble.


Yes, any good CFII should teach that an essential part of preflight
planning is knowing where the better weather is so that you can head
that direction of the doodoo hits the fan. And knowing the direction
and approximate distance of a large body of water can be helpful if you
have to do an emergency let-down to, hopefully, visual conditions after
a nav failure.


Matt

wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 23:29:42 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:


Maule Driver wrote:


But it really came into focus when I flew one of my last contests in
Mifflin PA. It attracted a bunch of guys from the left coast who were
flying in the NE for the first time. Their discomfort with both flying
and navigating the terrain was obvious and it effected their
performance enormously - for a couple of days anyway.

I never have discomfort navigating, but I often have discomfort when
looking for an emergency landing site and finding absolutely nothing
hospitable, especially from west of N38 to nearly ERI! The thought of
full stalling into the trees has just never given me great comfort. :-)

Matt


Some years ago the BBC was filming, in Canada, from a light aircraft
(not sure if 4 or 6 seat) when the aircraft was unable to climb.
I assume due to downdraft exceeding aircraft climb. The aircraft was
descending and the pilot had no option but to fly into a forrest. The
outside camera was torn off as it went into the trees but the
cameraman inside kept filming the accident. You could see the
professionalism of the pilot as he flew the aircraft all the way to
the crash. There was one point where you could even see a slight
deviation as the pilot slightly maneuvered between the trees.

The result was not a disaster and the aircraft came to rest in the
trees with the most damage being done to the passengers when trying to
climb out of the trees. Once on the ground the presenter decided to do
a piece to camera. This was an amazing piece of filming and shows that
you should always 'Fly the plane' :-)

I agree. I would certainly plan to do that should I have no choice, but
it still doesn't give me great comfort! :-)

All it takes is one errant limb to snap and come through the windshield
and you become a kabob.

A lot depends on the type of trees. Evergreens are generally much more
resilient than the hardwoods that predominant in my part of PA. A might
oak tree would stop most light planes in very short order and with high
deceleration and also the possibility of a broken limb coming right
through the windshield or door.


Matt

Grand Canyon! Yeah, that territory is at the same time feature-rich and
feature-less depending on your familiarity. Damn, I've been so lost
there! Pilotage in engineless aircraft 1500' above the terrain can be
nerve-racking - where is that damn Hornell?

I landed 'out' at Grand Canyon once in a sailplane. The PIK20b was a
2nd generation fiberglass gliders with a laminar type airfoil known to
be bug sensitive (bug smashes significantly degraded the performance).
A weak willed Citabria came to give me an aero retrieve. As he began
the takeoff roll, a rain sprinkle started. We ran down the runway and
when we reached my normal liftoff speed, I couldn't. Rain had degraded
the the performance that much. The added drag of me rolling kept him on
the ground. He got off before I did with his wheels kissing the grass.
I dragged off the end of the asphalt and found out why they call it
Grand Canyon - thank goodness. Quite a drop off as I recall... Is that
the same N38?

Interestingly I sat down at the tube last night and they were doing a
show on the Mississippi and featured Sam Clemens/Mark Twain's stories
about piloting the Mississippi. Even interviewed a river pilot about
the test they have to take and his ability to draw a detailed 100 mile
map of the river from memory.

Matt Whiting wrote:

I never have discomfort navigating, but I often have discomfort when
looking for an emergency landing site and finding absolutely nothing
hospitable, especially from west of N38 to nearly ERI! The thought of
full stalling into the trees has just never given me great comfort. :-)

Matt

Maule Driver wrote:

Grand Canyon! Yeah, that territory is at the same time feature-rich and
feature-less depending on your familiarity. Damn, I've been so lost
there! Pilotage in engineless aircraft 1500' above the terrain can be
nerve-racking - where is that damn Hornell?

Yes, it is feature-rich, but I don't think feature-less. Then again, I
was born here... :-)


I landed 'out' at Grand Canyon once in a sailplane. The PIK20b was a
2nd generation fiberglass gliders with a laminar type airfoil known to
be bug sensitive (bug smashes significantly degraded the performance). A
weak willed Citabria came to give me an aero retrieve. As he began the
takeoff roll, a rain sprinkle started. We ran down the runway and when
we reached my normal liftoff speed, I couldn't. Rain had degraded the
the performance that much. The added drag of me rolling kept him on the
ground. He got off before I did with his wheels kissing the grass. I
dragged off the end of the asphalt and found out why they call it Grand
Canyon - thank goodness. Quite a drop off as I recall... Is that the
same N38?


Yep, it is the same Grand Canyon airport, but not for long. It will
soon be renamed to something like the Wellsboro Johnston airport in
honor of Dick and Ada Johnston who operated the airport for many decades
and just retired a few years ago when the state sold the airport to a
local airport authority.


Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:

The thought of
full stalling into the trees has just never given me great comfort. :-)

I remember a thread a year or more back in which this technique was discussed. A
few posts claimed (and, IIRC, proof was presented) that stalling an aircraft
into the trees would usually result in such a strong decelleration force when
you hit that compression of the spine would result. This would frequently
produce paralysis or death. The claim was made that flying the aircraft into the
trees (basically a "greaser landing" in the upper limbs) was far safer than
stalling it in.

I decided at that time that the argument seems reasonable to me and that I would
try to fly the plane in if the situation ever came up.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.