Rolling a Non Aerobat 150

Dave Stadt wrote:
You honestly believe spin training would save you if you spun with a load of
ice? Surely you jest.


I know what's going to happen if I do nothing.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
. ..
Dave Stadt wrote:
You honestly believe spin training would save you if you spun with a
load of
ice? Surely you jest.


I know what's going to happen if I do nothing.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Over gross, iced up and in a spin is Darwin award time.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in
m:


"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in
message . ..
Dave Stadt wrote:
You honestly believe spin training would save you if you spun with a
load of
ice? Surely you jest.


I know what's going to happen if I do nothing.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Over gross, iced up and in a spin is Darwin award time.

This reminds me of a scenario my motorcycle class instructor
gave the class.

Your flying up the on ramp to a freeway, one of those clover
leaf types that have you go around in a 270 and the center is
filled with foliage. You're going as fast as you can, leaning
way over and dragging your knee on the ground just like the
best of them. Suddenly up ahead you notice a bus stopped at
the traffic light at the top of the ramp*.

What do you do?

The class offered up all sorts of answers, none of which were
right. I happened to have the right answer, that you don't put
yourself into that situation in the first place.

My point is, I see flying over gross weight as putting yourself
into a potentially unrecoverable situation.

*Don't know if other places have these, but here in LA there's
traffic lights at the top of the onramps to regulate the flow
cars entering the freeway during peak traffic hours. It's
supposed to space the oncoming vehicles apart so they can merge
smoothly with existing traffic.

The problem I have with these lights is that the stupid drivers
dont' hit the gas hard enough and they then try merging with
70 mph traffic at 30mph. It's bad enough that they do that
without the light.

Advantage is to the motorcycle, especially if there's a carpool
lane, as we are allowed to use them here in Kah-lee-for-nyuh.

Just some thoughts....

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Home of the Seismic FAQ
http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Skywise wrote:
My point is, I see flying over gross weight as putting yourself
into a potentially unrecoverable situation.


Nobody wants to do it. OTOH, what do you do when you're flying Part 135; you're
given the load and expected to move it. Quit? Be out of work for several weeks
and have to move to find another job? I know the easy answer. I know the smart
answer. I also know the real answer.

Freight dogs do a lot of stuff smarter guys wouldn't attempt. Most of the time
we get away with it; sometimes we don't.

I worked for a company that had (among other things) a Geronimo conversion
Apache with 180 hp a side (compared to the normal Apache's 150 hp/side). My
boss wanted me to fly it but I was resistant, mostly due to its unconventional
instrument panel. ASI was on the far right, altimeter on the top left, etc... I
just couldn't see myself flying that thing IFR. He pushed, I delayed. Finally,
he sent his chief pilot down to Charlotte to pick me up in it one gray morning
and fly a load of cancelled checks to RDU. As it turned out, the load would put
us about 400 lbs overgrossed.

"Sheeitt.... you fly it to Raleigh and leave me behind", I said. "No need", he
said, "it can do it". Well, I was as nervous as a whore in church but I got in
and we took our place in line. To make a long story short, we were airborne
before I crossed the intersection of 5/23... a distance of about 1000 feet. Not
only were we airborne, we were climbing STRONGLY. "Hmmm.... maybe this isn't so
bad".

Of course, if an engine failed, I'd have been screwed. I knew that. I also
know if that airplane had arrived in Raleigh without me I'd likely be out of
work... and flying jobs in 1989 didn't grow on trees. You do what you do.

But every time a commuter or a freighter falls out of the sky I think about what
may really have happened that will never be discussed.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Skywise wrote:
"Dave Stadt" wrote in
m:


"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in
message . ..
Dave Stadt wrote:
You honestly believe spin training would save you if you spun with a
load of
ice? Surely you jest.


I know what's going to happen if I do nothing.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Over gross, iced up and in a spin is Darwin award time.

This reminds me of a scenario my motorcycle class instructor
gave the class.

Your flying up the on ramp to a freeway, one of those clover
leaf types that have you go around in a 270 and the center is
filled with foliage. You're going as fast as you can, leaning
way over and dragging your knee on the ground just like the
best of them. Suddenly up ahead you notice a bus stopped at
the traffic light at the top of the ramp*.

What do you do?

The class offered up all sorts of answers, none of which were
right. I happened to have the right answer, that you don't put
yourself into that situation in the first place.

My point is, I see flying over gross weight as putting yourself
into a potentially unrecoverable situation.

*Don't know if other places have these, but here in LA there's
traffic lights at the top of the onramps to regulate the flow
cars entering the freeway during peak traffic hours. It's
supposed to space the oncoming vehicles apart so they can merge
smoothly with existing traffic.

The problem I have with these lights is that the stupid drivers
dont' hit the gas hard enough and they then try merging with
70 mph traffic at 30mph. It's bad enough that they do that
without the light.

Advantage is to the motorcycle, especially if there's a carpool
lane, as we are allowed to use them here in Kah-lee-for-nyuh.

Just some thoughts....

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Home of the Seismic FAQ
http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Not too dificult to be over gross withoug knowing it. Do you think all
passengers know their weight or are honest about it? Do you think the
170 pound per person rule of thumb is very accurate? Do you think the
passengers know the weight of their baggage?

If I have pax that I don't know and I have bags that I don't know, then
I have a bathroom scale that is small and gets used.

Chris


Sport Pilot wrote:

Skywise wrote:

"Dave Stadt" wrote in
. com:


"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in
message . ..

Dave Stadt wrote:

You honestly believe spin training would save you if you spun with a

load of

ice? Surely you jest.


I know what's going to happen if I do nothing.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN



Over gross, iced up and in a spin is Darwin award time.

This reminds me of a scenario my motorcycle class instructor
gave the class.

Your flying up the on ramp to a freeway, one of those clover
leaf types that have you go around in a 270 and the center is
filled with foliage. You're going as fast as you can, leaning
way over and dragging your knee on the ground just like the
best of them. Suddenly up ahead you notice a bus stopped at
the traffic light at the top of the ramp*.

What do you do?

The class offered up all sorts of answers, none of which were
right. I happened to have the right answer, that you don't put
yourself into that situation in the first place.

My point is, I see flying over gross weight as putting yourself
into a potentially unrecoverable situation.

*Don't know if other places have these, but here in LA there's
traffic lights at the top of the onramps to regulate the flow
cars entering the freeway during peak traffic hours. It's
supposed to space the oncoming vehicles apart so they can merge
smoothly with existing traffic.

The problem I have with these lights is that the stupid drivers
dont' hit the gas hard enough and they then try merging with
70 mph traffic at 30mph. It's bad enough that they do that
without the light.

Advantage is to the motorcycle, especially if there's a carpool
lane, as we are allowed to use them here in Kah-lee-for-nyuh.

Just some thoughts....

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Home of the Seismic FAQ
http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?


Not too dificult to be over gross withoug knowing it. Do you think all
passengers know their weight or are honest about it? Do you think the
170 pound per person rule of thumb is very accurate? Do you think the
passengers know the weight of their baggage?

"Sport Pilot" wrote in news:1118415441.605435.128770
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Snipola
Not too dificult to be over gross withoug knowing it. Do you think all
passengers know their weight or are honest about it? Do you think the
170 pound per person rule of thumb is very accurate? Do you think the
passengers know the weight of their baggage?

I thought we were talking about private light GA, not commercial airlines.

But even so, that's even more reason to be sure you don't break the
rules because you have a responsibility to others lives. If someone
wants to bend/break the rules at the risk of their own life, fine, be
a darwin award candidate. We dont' need them in the gene pool. But
don't risk other's lives while you're at it.

The same argument could even apply to light private GA. What if you
crash into someone's house and kill the residents? hmmm???

Better safe than sorry.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Home of the Seismic FAQ
http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Skywise wrote:
"Sport Pilot" wrote in news:1118415441.605435.128770
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Snipola
Not too dificult to be over gross withoug knowing it. Do you think all
passengers know their weight or are honest about it? Do you think the
170 pound per person rule of thumb is very accurate? Do you think the
passengers know the weight of their baggage?

I thought we were talking about private light GA, not commercial airlines.

You never took your friends or their luggage? My wife has never told
me how much she weighs.


But even so, that's even more reason to be sure you don't break the
rules because you have a responsibility to others lives. If someone
wants to bend/break the rules at the risk of their own life, fine, be
a darwin award candidate. We dont' need them in the gene pool. But
don't risk other's lives while you're at it.

As I said anyone could break the rule and not even know it.


The same argument could even apply to light private GA. What if you
crash into someone's house and kill the residents? hmmm???

Better safe than sorry.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Home of the Seismic FAQ
http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

"Sport Pilot" wrote in
ups.com:

Skywise wrote:
"Sport Pilot" wrote in
news:1118415441.605435.128770 @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Snipola
Not too dificult to be over gross withoug knowing it. Do you think
all passengers know their weight or are honest about it? Do you
think the 170 pound per person rule of thumb is very accurate? Do
you think the passengers know the weight of their baggage?

I thought we were talking about private light GA, not commercial
airlines.

You never took your friends or their luggage? My wife has never told
me how much she weighs.

First, I'm not a pilot...yet. I hope to get my license but the
opportunity just hasn't prevailed itself upon me yet.

If there is one thing I've learned in the few months that I've been
reading this newsgroup is that the pilot is ultimately responsible
for the safety of the flight. Knowing the weight of your passengers
and cargo is part of your duty as pilot in command, is it not?

I would simply explain that I must know my passengers weight in
order make sure that we have a safe flight. If need be, I'd even
try explain some of the issues that could arise from not making a
proper weight calculation. If they still seem a little embarrassed
I'd promise not to tell anyone. It's simply for the safety of the
flight.

I would hate to think knowing all this a person would be so vain
that they would willingly choose weight over safety.


But even so, that's even more reason to be sure you don't break the
rules because you have a responsibility to others lives. If someone
wants to bend/break the rules at the risk of their own life, fine, be
a darwin award candidate. We dont' need them in the gene pool. But
don't risk other's lives while you're at it.

As I said anyone could break the rule and not even know it.
Snipola

There's always going to be things that can happen that are beyond ones
control, but that's no excuse for CHOOSING to ignore something that has
an affect on flight safety. Perhaps having an exact weight is not as
critical for a large airliner but is it not potentially critical for
something small like a 170?

As I said, better safe than sorry. Flying isn't like driving. You
can't just pull over in the sky to fix something that goes wrong.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Dave Stadt wrote:
You honestly believe spin training would save you if you spun with a load
of
ice? Surely you jest.

Where did the ice come in?