Rolling a Non Aerobat 150

Skywise wrote:
"Dave Stadt" wrote in
m:


"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in
message . ..
Dave Stadt wrote:
You honestly believe spin training would save you if you spun with a
load of
ice? Surely you jest.


I know what's going to happen if I do nothing.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Over gross, iced up and in a spin is Darwin award time.

This reminds me of a scenario my motorcycle class instructor
gave the class.

Your flying up the on ramp to a freeway, one of those clover
leaf types that have you go around in a 270 and the center is
filled with foliage. You're going as fast as you can, leaning
way over and dragging your knee on the ground just like the
best of them. Suddenly up ahead you notice a bus stopped at
the traffic light at the top of the ramp*.

What do you do?

The class offered up all sorts of answers, none of which were
right. I happened to have the right answer, that you don't put
yourself into that situation in the first place.

My point is, I see flying over gross weight as putting yourself
into a potentially unrecoverable situation.

*Don't know if other places have these, but here in LA there's
traffic lights at the top of the onramps to regulate the flow
cars entering the freeway during peak traffic hours. It's
supposed to space the oncoming vehicles apart so they can merge
smoothly with existing traffic.

The problem I have with these lights is that the stupid drivers
dont' hit the gas hard enough and they then try merging with
70 mph traffic at 30mph. It's bad enough that they do that
without the light.

Advantage is to the motorcycle, especially if there's a carpool
lane, as we are allowed to use them here in Kah-lee-for-nyuh.

Just some thoughts....

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Home of the Seismic FAQ
http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Not too dificult to be over gross withoug knowing it. Do you think all
passengers know their weight or are honest about it? Do you think the
170 pound per person rule of thumb is very accurate? Do you think the
passengers know the weight of their baggage?

If I have pax that I don't know and I have bags that I don't know, then
I have a bathroom scale that is small and gets used.

Chris


Sport Pilot wrote:

Skywise wrote:

"Dave Stadt" wrote in
. com:


"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in
message . ..

Dave Stadt wrote:

You honestly believe spin training would save you if you spun with a

load of

ice? Surely you jest.


I know what's going to happen if I do nothing.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN



Over gross, iced up and in a spin is Darwin award time.

This reminds me of a scenario my motorcycle class instructor
gave the class.

Your flying up the on ramp to a freeway, one of those clover
leaf types that have you go around in a 270 and the center is
filled with foliage. You're going as fast as you can, leaning
way over and dragging your knee on the ground just like the
best of them. Suddenly up ahead you notice a bus stopped at
the traffic light at the top of the ramp*.

What do you do?

The class offered up all sorts of answers, none of which were
right. I happened to have the right answer, that you don't put
yourself into that situation in the first place.

My point is, I see flying over gross weight as putting yourself
into a potentially unrecoverable situation.

*Don't know if other places have these, but here in LA there's
traffic lights at the top of the onramps to regulate the flow
cars entering the freeway during peak traffic hours. It's
supposed to space the oncoming vehicles apart so they can merge
smoothly with existing traffic.

The problem I have with these lights is that the stupid drivers
dont' hit the gas hard enough and they then try merging with
70 mph traffic at 30mph. It's bad enough that they do that
without the light.

Advantage is to the motorcycle, especially if there's a carpool
lane, as we are allowed to use them here in Kah-lee-for-nyuh.

Just some thoughts....

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Home of the Seismic FAQ
http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?


Not too dificult to be over gross withoug knowing it. Do you think all
passengers know their weight or are honest about it? Do you think the
170 pound per person rule of thumb is very accurate? Do you think the
passengers know the weight of their baggage?

"Sport Pilot" wrote in news:1118415441.605435.128770
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Snipola
Not too dificult to be over gross withoug knowing it. Do you think all
passengers know their weight or are honest about it? Do you think the
170 pound per person rule of thumb is very accurate? Do you think the
passengers know the weight of their baggage?

I thought we were talking about private light GA, not commercial airlines.

But even so, that's even more reason to be sure you don't break the
rules because you have a responsibility to others lives. If someone
wants to bend/break the rules at the risk of their own life, fine, be
a darwin award candidate. We dont' need them in the gene pool. But
don't risk other's lives while you're at it.

The same argument could even apply to light private GA. What if you
crash into someone's house and kill the residents? hmmm???

Better safe than sorry.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Home of the Seismic FAQ
http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Skywise wrote:
"Sport Pilot" wrote in news:1118415441.605435.128770
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Snipola
Not too dificult to be over gross withoug knowing it. Do you think all
passengers know their weight or are honest about it? Do you think the
170 pound per person rule of thumb is very accurate? Do you think the
passengers know the weight of their baggage?

I thought we were talking about private light GA, not commercial airlines.

You never took your friends or their luggage? My wife has never told
me how much she weighs.


But even so, that's even more reason to be sure you don't break the
rules because you have a responsibility to others lives. If someone
wants to bend/break the rules at the risk of their own life, fine, be
a darwin award candidate. We dont' need them in the gene pool. But
don't risk other's lives while you're at it.

As I said anyone could break the rule and not even know it.


The same argument could even apply to light private GA. What if you
crash into someone's house and kill the residents? hmmm???

Better safe than sorry.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Home of the Seismic FAQ
http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

"Sport Pilot" wrote in
ups.com:

Skywise wrote:
"Sport Pilot" wrote in
news:1118415441.605435.128770 @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Snipola
Not too dificult to be over gross withoug knowing it. Do you think
all passengers know their weight or are honest about it? Do you
think the 170 pound per person rule of thumb is very accurate? Do
you think the passengers know the weight of their baggage?

I thought we were talking about private light GA, not commercial
airlines.

You never took your friends or their luggage? My wife has never told
me how much she weighs.

First, I'm not a pilot...yet. I hope to get my license but the
opportunity just hasn't prevailed itself upon me yet.

If there is one thing I've learned in the few months that I've been
reading this newsgroup is that the pilot is ultimately responsible
for the safety of the flight. Knowing the weight of your passengers
and cargo is part of your duty as pilot in command, is it not?

I would simply explain that I must know my passengers weight in
order make sure that we have a safe flight. If need be, I'd even
try explain some of the issues that could arise from not making a
proper weight calculation. If they still seem a little embarrassed
I'd promise not to tell anyone. It's simply for the safety of the
flight.

I would hate to think knowing all this a person would be so vain
that they would willingly choose weight over safety.


But even so, that's even more reason to be sure you don't break the
rules because you have a responsibility to others lives. If someone
wants to bend/break the rules at the risk of their own life, fine, be
a darwin award candidate. We dont' need them in the gene pool. But
don't risk other's lives while you're at it.

As I said anyone could break the rule and not even know it.
Snipola

There's always going to be things that can happen that are beyond ones
control, but that's no excuse for CHOOSING to ignore something that has
an affect on flight safety. Perhaps having an exact weight is not as
critical for a large airliner but is it not potentially critical for
something small like a 170?

As I said, better safe than sorry. Flying isn't like driving. You
can't just pull over in the sky to fix something that goes wrong.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Skywise wrote:
"Sport Pilot" wrote in
ups.com:

Skywise wrote:
"Sport Pilot" wrote in
news:1118415441.605435.128770 @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Snipola
Not too dificult to be over gross withoug knowing it. Do you think
all passengers know their weight or are honest about it? Do you
think the 170 pound per person rule of thumb is very accurate? Do
you think the passengers know the weight of their baggage?

I thought we were talking about private light GA, not commercial
airlines.

You never took your friends or their luggage? My wife has never told
me how much she weighs.

First, I'm not a pilot...yet. I hope to get my license but the
opportunity just hasn't prevailed itself upon me yet.

If there is one thing I've learned in the few months that I've been
reading this newsgroup is that the pilot is ultimately responsible
for the safety of the flight. Knowing the weight of your passengers
and cargo is part of your duty as pilot in command, is it not?

I would simply explain that I must know my passengers weight in
order make sure that we have a safe flight. If need be, I'd even
try explain some of the issues that could arise from not making a
proper weight calculation. If they still seem a little embarrassed
I'd promise not to tell anyone. It's simply for the safety of the
flight.

I would hate to think knowing all this a person would be so vain
that they would willingly choose weight over safety.


But even so, that's even more reason to be sure you don't break the
rules because you have a responsibility to others lives. If someone
wants to bend/break the rules at the risk of their own life, fine, be
a darwin award candidate. We dont' need them in the gene pool. But
don't risk other's lives while you're at it.

As I said anyone could break the rule and not even know it.
Snipola

There's always going to be things that can happen that are beyond ones
control, but that's no excuse for CHOOSING to ignore something that has
an affect on flight safety. Perhaps having an exact weight is not as
critical for a large airliner but is it not potentially critical for
something small like a 170?

As I said, better safe than sorry. Flying isn't like driving. You
can't just pull over in the sky to fix something that goes wrong.


Refreshing post.
Keep thinking like that.
The rules are not there just to give the printer a job

Skywise wrote:

Knowing the weight of your passengers
and cargo is part of your duty as pilot in command, is it not?

Not necessarily. Knowing that the aircraft is at or below MGW and within the
envelope is part of your duty as PIC. If you have enough passengers and luggage
to be close to MGW, then, yes, you need to know the weights. If not, you don't.

For example, my Maule would carry 560 pounds with full tanks. Going up with a
single passenger, I never had to ask that person what they weighed. I simply
don't know people who weigh well over 350 pounds. I know that putting more than
210 pounds in the back seat will put me out of the envelope. If the EAA brings
me two typical 10 year olds, I know I can put them in the back seat with no
problems for a Young Eagles flight, and I can tell that by looking at them.

The only time I needed to know exact weights were when I took my family on
vacations.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

George Patterson wrote in
news:QJFre.5835$fa3.83@trndny01:

Skywise wrote:

Knowing the weight of your passengers
and cargo is part of your duty as pilot in command, is it not?

Not necessarily. Knowing that the aircraft is at or below MGW and within
the envelope is part of your duty as PIC. If you have enough passengers
and luggage to be close to MGW, then, yes, you need to know the weights.
If not, you don't.

For example, my Maule would carry 560 pounds with full tanks. Going up
with a single passenger, I never had to ask that person what they
weighed. I simply don't know people who weigh well over 350 pounds. I
know that putting more than 210 pounds in the back seat will put me out
of the envelope. If the EAA brings me two typical 10 year olds, I know I
can put them in the back seat with no problems for a Young Eagles
flight, and I can tell that by looking at them.

The only time I needed to know exact weights were when I took my family
on vacations.

George Patterson

I agree with you completely. There are obviously times when knowing
an exact weight is not necessary, but you are still giving the
weight consideration.

Then there are times when knowing exact weights are important.

You are obviously smart enough to know the difference. I was
getting the impression from some posters that they aren't.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Skywise wrote:
George Patterson wrote in
news:QJFre.5835$fa3.83@trndny01:

Skywise wrote:

Knowing the weight of your passengers
and cargo is part of your duty as pilot in command, is it not?

Not necessarily. Knowing that the aircraft is at or below MGW and within
the envelope is part of your duty as PIC. If you have enough passengers
and luggage to be close to MGW, then, yes, you need to know the weights.
If not, you don't.

For example, my Maule would carry 560 pounds with full tanks. Going up
with a single passenger, I never had to ask that person what they
weighed. I simply don't know people who weigh well over 350 pounds. I
know that putting more than 210 pounds in the back seat will put me out
of the envelope. If the EAA brings me two typical 10 year olds, I know I
can put them in the back seat with no problems for a Young Eagles
flight, and I can tell that by looking at them.

The only time I needed to know exact weights were when I took my family
on vacations.

George Patterson

I agree with you completely. There are obviously times when knowing
an exact weight is not necessary, but you are still giving the
weight consideration.

Then there are times when knowing exact weights are important.

You are obviously smart enough to know the difference. I was
getting the impression from some posters that they aren't.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?


Using 170 pounds per person is supposed to be a legit method of
estimating the weight. Even the FAA doesn't expect you to carry a
scale and weigh the passengers and cargo. Esitmating is supposed to be
legit. So you could underestimate and be over the gross weight.