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#21
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"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net... "Brad Zeigler" wrote in message ... Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but according to the AIM, TRSAs provide separation between participating VFR aircraft. In class C airspace, there is only separation between VFR & IFR aircraft. The AIM makes it sound like TRSAs offer participating aircraft a higher level of separation services than class C radar services. I suppose that depends on what you consider a higher level of separation services to be. In Class C airspace IFR aircraft are separated from all other aircraft, but in TRSAs they're only separated from other participating aircraft. True. I was thinking along the lines of VFR to VFR separation. Manditory participation in class C doesn't get you that...only Class B. It's interesting that TRSAs offer VFR to VFR separation, even if only for those who wish to play along. Perhaps this is an attribute of TRSAs that differentiate themselves from Class Ds with approach radar services. |
#22
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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Guy Elden Jr" wrote in message oups.com... Something I've always wondered... why do TRSAs even exist? Good question. Nobody seems to know the answer. Plain language: Because they do not have the trafic load required to be Class C but much more traffic than what is being loaded into the class D airports. AIM language: TRSA do not meet the ARSA criteria for conversion to a Part-71 defined airspace. These criteria are relatively stingent. Seems like a dangerous proposition to choose some airports as having the concept of a voluntary controlled airspace? What seems dangerous about it? TRSAs exist in Class D and Class E airspace but are not in themselves controlled airspace. It is a place to get flight following and approach control Why not a Class C (their closest cousin as far as I can tell)? See above Part of the Airport Radar Service Area (ARSA) plan was to eventually replace all TRSAs with ARSAs, which are nor Class C airspace. But not all TRSAs met ARSA requirements. True -- -------------------- Scott F. Migaldi CP-ASEL-IA MI-150972 Join the PADI Instructor Yahoo Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PADI-Instructors/ -------------------- |
#23
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Seems like a dangerous proposition to choose some airports as having the
concept of a voluntary controlled airspace? What seems dangerous about it? TRSAs exist in Class D and Class E airspace but are not in themselves controlled airspace. Ah, that's where I made my mistake - thinking that it's controlled airspace (as in Class B). I just remember my instructor telling me to always participate when flying into a TRSA, but never really understanding why it was voluntary in the first place. Thanks for all the replies everyone! -- Guy |
#24
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"Guy Elden Jr" wrote in message oups.com... Ah, that's where I made my mistake - thinking that it's controlled airspace (as in Class B). I just remember my instructor telling me to always participate when flying into a TRSA, but never really understanding why it was voluntary in the first place. If it was not voluntary it would have the properties of Class B airspace. |
#25
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"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net... TRSAs exist in Class D and Class E airspace, but are not a type of controlled airspace. I never said they were. |
#26
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"Peter Duniho" wrote in message ... I never said they were. Try to follow the thread, Peter. |
#27
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Guy Elden Jr wrote:
Ah, that's where I made my mistake - thinking that it's controlled airspace (as in Class B). So here's a followup question: We know the TRSA space coexists with the class E airspace. Does it also coexist with the class D airspace "in" the TRSA airspace? Or are TRSA and class D mutually exclusive? Does the answer to this question make any practical difference? - Andrew |
#28
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"Scott Migaldi" wrote in message ... Plain language: Because they do not have the trafic load required to be Class C but much more traffic than what is being loaded into the class D airports. Do they? How does the traffic count at airports with Class D airspace and TRSAs compare with the traffic count at Class D airports with TRACONs that do not have TRSAs? |
#29
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Peter Duniho wrote:
"Ron Natalie" wrote in message m... The predate ARSA's. TRSA's existed when there were only TCA's nad the FAA hadn't invented ARSA's. They both predate, and are left-over from, the relevant time periods. I don't know what above means, but the original statement is still correct. TRSA's existed long before ARSA's were "invented." TRSA's are NOT controlled airspace in themselves. Just wannabe radar service zones. I don't understand your statement. I've never heard of a TRSA existing in Class G airspace. All of the ones I've seen have been in Class E airspace, which certainly is controlled airspace. But they are not controlled airspace in themselves. It's entirely analogous to the old airport traffic areas. They were NOT controlled airspace. A TRSA is just a bunch of lines on the chart that says "radar services available here." You are welcome to that opinion. I happen to disagree. It provides a higher level of service than that offered by most towers in Class D airspace, and a lower level of service than that offered by radar facilities in Class C airspace. It provides different service. A TRSA provides radar service when class D does not (generally, although there's almost always a class D tower in the middle of a TRSA). However some class D's provide radar services without being TRSA's. TRSA's have the side effect of not necessarily having all the aircraft within it participate, which makes it inferior to class D and C. It is a region within Class E airspace where a slightly different type of radar service is offered from that normally found in Class E airspace. I would be amazed if there was a TRSA outside of controlled airspace. It's not always class E. I certainly don't disagree with your last sentence. That doesn't mean a TRSA isn't in controlled airspace though. It's NOT controlled airspace. There are 5 kinds of controlled airspace in the US: A, B, C, D, and E. They do not overlap. A TRSA may overlap controlled airspace, but it's jut another concept like a RESTRICTED AREA etc... |
#30
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On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:54:05 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in et:: TRSAs exist in Class D and Class E airspace, but are not a type of controlled airspace. So then is it correct, that if the TRSA controller issues an instruction to you as a participatory flight, you are only obliged to follow that instruction if you choose? Or are participating flights required to follow TRSA controllers' instructions or cancel Stage Three participation? |
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