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#1
June 11th 05, 06:25 PM
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#3
June 11th 05, 08:12 PM
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A buddy of mine bought a used Cherokee. When he got home with it (2000-mile trip), he discovered, among other jewels, that the alternator belt said "NAPA AUTO PARTS," and the landing-light connector pair had been replaced with a bulb socket and a bulb with the glass smashed away and wires soldered to the connections. In addition to a bunch of corrosion, he found that all the wing fuel tank vents had been cut off flush with wing, covered with screws, and painted over. The airplane not only had a current annual, but my friend had hired a different A&P for a pre-buy..... Some observations from an older A&P / IA - It is a sad commentary on the condition of the field, but I think we are getting what we have asked for. Over and over on this NG and others I read owners complaints about the cost of maintenance on their personal aircraft and the quality of work they get. In general there is a direct corollary to what a person earns and the quality of work they provide. As an example let's look at the pilot side of things and the pecking order on wages and skill level - Major corporation Major airline Smaller airline Fractional's Commuter airline Charter I can tell you without any hesitation that the best and brightest are not flying charter Lear Jets for a living. There is no difference with maintenance personnel. That does not mean there are not any exceptions, but I have determined, in general, that small aircraft maintainers are either near retirement, new in the industry, or has-been's that can't find work elsewhere. As part of my business, I hire personnel for corporate flight departments. In order to get the best, I typically set the salaries of a Gulfstream-type mechanic at $75K to 95K depending on the area of the country. I recently placed a DOM at $105K. These are not the same quality of technicians that are working out of the back of their truck or for Bob's Cessna Shop in Grass Strip, Kansas. My suggestion - If I were to buy a light aircraft, I would find the most expensive factory shop I could find and pay them for a complete Annual Inspection and supervise them well. There is no FAA definition for a pre-buy, but there is for an Annual. I would set the ground rules and make sure they understand my expectations. At a minimum, ask to review their checklist and make sure you are happy with it. If they don't have a checklist, go elsewhere as an Annual requires one. I don't think any of you would take your Lexus to the local gas station for repairs, so why do owners of $75,000 airplanes insist on going to Bob's? I don't have a clue, but it's something to think about.
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#4
June 11th 05, 11:06 PM
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Well Don, for every rule there's an exception. Recently (as in last
week) an acquaintance purchased a low time Baron and had the Raytheon folks on the west coast do a "complete" pre-buy and annual on it, to the tune of $55,000. During the flight home here to Connecticut, none of the radios worked, the co-pilot's side rudder pedal was discovered to be disconnected, and a persistently reported (by the previous owner) oil leak turned out to be a 6 inch crack in one of the crankcases. Obscene. I'll take a conscientious one-man shop over that scenario any day. Rip Don Hammer wrote: A buddy of mine bought a used Cherokee. When he got home with it (2000-mile trip), he discovered, among other jewels, that the alternator belt said "NAPA AUTO PARTS," and the landing-light connector pair had been replaced with a bulb socket and a bulb with the glass smashed away and wires soldered to the connections. In addition to a bunch of corrosion, he found that all the wing fuel tank vents had been cut off flush with wing, covered with screws, and painted over. The airplane not only had a current annual, but my friend had hired a different A&P for a pre-buy..... Some observations from an older A&P / IA - It is a sad commentary on the condition of the field, but I think we are getting what we have asked for. Over and over on this NG and others I read owners complaints about the cost of maintenance on their personal aircraft and the quality of work they get. In general there is a direct corollary to what a person earns and the quality of work they provide. As an example let's look at the pilot side of things and the pecking order on wages and skill level - Major corporation Major airline Smaller airline Fractional's Commuter airline Charter I can tell you without any hesitation that the best and brightest are not flying charter Lear Jets for a living. There is no difference with maintenance personnel. That does not mean there are not any exceptions, but I have determined, in general, that small aircraft maintainers are either near retirement, new in the industry, or has-been's that can't find work elsewhere. As part of my business, I hire personnel for corporate flight departments. In order to get the best, I typically set the salaries of a Gulfstream-type mechanic at $75K to 95K depending on the area of the country. I recently placed a DOM at $105K. These are not the same quality of technicians that are working out of the back of their truck or for Bob's Cessna Shop in Grass Strip, Kansas. My suggestion - If I were to buy a light aircraft, I would find the most expensive factory shop I could find and pay them for a complete Annual Inspection and supervise them well. There is no FAA definition for a pre-buy, but there is for an Annual. I would set the ground rules and make sure they understand my expectations. At a minimum, ask to review their checklist and make sure you are happy with it. If they don't have a checklist, go elsewhere as an Annual requires one. I don't think any of you would take your Lexus to the local gas station for repairs, so why do owners of $75,000 airplanes insist on going to Bob's? I don't have a clue, but it's something to think about.
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#5
June 11th 05, 11:39 PM
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"Don Hammer" wrote in message news:1118517137.02e998fe27851901b8e26c46364fa35d@t eranews... snip My suggestion - If I were to buy a light aircraft, I would find the most expensive factory shop I could find and pay them for a complete Annual Inspection and supervise them well. There is no FAA definition for a pre-buy, but there is for an Annual. I would set the ground rules and make sure they understand my expectations. At a minimum, ask to review their checklist and make sure you are happy with it. If they don't have a checklist, go elsewhere as an Annual requires one. I don't think any of you would take your Lexus to the local gas station for repairs, so why do owners of $75,000 airplanes insist on going to Bob's? I don't have a clue, but it's something to think about. It's amazing, isn't it? The dealership where I take my Honda charges about $60/hr, and you pay by "book" time. Generally, a good mechanic can beat the book by 25% or more, so you're really paying something like $80/hr. My AI charges $45/hr, and charges for the actual time a job takes. Sure, his overhead is less than the Honda dealer's, but his exposure to liability is certainly higher, and he's spent a whole lot more time on his training than most of the guys turning wrenches for the auto dealer. Beyond that, if the auto shop messes up a repair or inspection on my car, it isn't likely to be catastrophic, whereas there the AI or A&P needs to get it right the first time, or it may cause a seriously bad situation. Maybe the difference in the shop rates between auto repair and aircraft repair shops has something to do with the fact that a well maintained, reliabile automobile is a necessity in today's society, so we can psycologically justify paying a premium price, as long as the service and quality of work are good. On the other hand, many GA aircraft are lifestyle accessories. As such, if they became too expensive, we'll just sell the airplane and find another hobby. Sad to say, but maybe the AI's are commanding all the market will bear...
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#6
June 11th 05, 10:19 PM
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Don,
I think you make some very valid points. I never even looked at a GA aircraft until I retired. They just could not pay enough. Who here would work for 8-15 an hour when if they are good at what they do can make 20-30 an hour? Not I , and as the old contracting saying goes" Have toolbox, will travel". So now..retirement! Now I am looking for planes to build or restore for myself. I sure hope I can help someone down the road,...but unless that situation comes up I'll be breaking out the rivet guns on my own stuff. Patrick student SPL aircraft structural mech "Don Hammer" wrote in message news:1118517137.02e998fe27851901b8e26c46364fa35d@t eranews... A buddy of mine bought a used Cherokee. When he got home with it (2000-mile trip), he discovered, among other jewels, that the alternator belt said "NAPA AUTO PARTS," and the landing-light connector pair had been replaced with a bulb socket and a bulb with the glass smashed away and wires soldered to the connections. In addition to a bunch of corrosion, he found that all the wing fuel tank vents had been cut off flush with wing, covered with screws, and painted over. The airplane not only had a current annual, but my friend had hired a different A&P for a pre-buy..... Some observations from an older A&P / IA - It is a sad commentary on the condition of the field, but I think we are getting what we have asked for. Over and over on this NG and others I read owners complaints about the cost of maintenance on their personal aircraft and the quality of work they get. In general there is a direct corollary to what a person earns and the quality of work they provide. As an example let's look at the pilot side of things and the pecking order on wages and skill level - Major corporation Major airline Smaller airline Fractional's Commuter airline Charter I can tell you without any hesitation that the best and brightest are not flying charter Lear Jets for a living. There is no difference with maintenance personnel. That does not mean there are not any exceptions, but I have determined, in general, that small aircraft maintainers are either near retirement, new in the industry, or has-been's that can't find work elsewhere. As part of my business, I hire personnel for corporate flight departments. In order to get the best, I typically set the salaries of a Gulfstream-type mechanic at $75K to 95K depending on the area of the country. I recently placed a DOM at $105K. These are not the same quality of technicians that are working out of the back of their truck or for Bob's Cessna Shop in Grass Strip, Kansas. My suggestion - If I were to buy a light aircraft, I would find the most expensive factory shop I could find and pay them for a complete Annual Inspection and supervise them well. There is no FAA definition for a pre-buy, but there is for an Annual. I would set the ground rules and make sure they understand my expectations. At a minimum, ask to review their checklist and make sure you are happy with it. If they don't have a checklist, go elsewhere as an Annual requires one. I don't think any of you would take your Lexus to the local gas station for repairs, so why do owners of $75,000 airplanes insist on going to Bob's? I don't have a clue, but it's something to think about.
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#7
June 12th 05, 01:06 AM
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I wish it were that simple, but I don't think it is. Others have made
the auto mechanic analogy and I'll add my experience to that. My mechanic works in a filthy poorly lit garage (pronounced "shack") at the end of a rutted gravel driveway in a seedy part of town. He's the best damn mechanic in town at any price. You can't find his name in the phone book, and you can't get his number from information, because he's got more work than three people could do. If you walk in the door and he doesn't know you, he'll likely greet you with profanity and send you away. I've had many many friends who've had their car fixed by him for less than $100 after the big fancy luxury dealers had charged them $700 or more to NOT fix them. He KNOWS cars. Then there was the "60 minutes" (IIRC) piece just a few years ago that secretly filmed major airline maintenance crews napping for hours at a time in the first class section of the airplanes they were supposed to be inspecting and maintaining. After the nap, they just get up and check off all the boxes on the form...NOT an isolated incident. Attitude, attention to detail, pride in workmanship -- I've never seen an indication that they're related to how much you pay someone. I've got $8 / hr. workers who are every damn bit as good in every measure as the $20 / hr. guys. In article 1118517137.02e998fe27851901b8e26c46364fa35d@teran ews, Don Hammer wrote: Some observations from an older A&P / IA - It is a sad commentary on the condition of the field, but I think we are getting what we have asked for. Over and over on this NG and others I read owners complaints about the cost of maintenance on their personal aircraft and the quality of work they get. In general there is a direct corollary to what a person earns and the quality of work they provide. As an example let's look at the pilot side of things and the pecking order on wages and skill level - Major corporation Major airline Smaller airline Fractional's Commuter airline Charter
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