Who does flight plans?

George Patterson wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote:


The thought of
full stalling into the trees has just never given me great comfort. :-)


I remember a thread a year or more back in which this technique was
discussed. A few posts claimed (and, IIRC, proof was presented) that
stalling an aircraft into the trees would usually result in such a
strong decelleration force when you hit that compression of the spine
would result. This would frequently produce paralysis or death. The
claim was made that flying the aircraft into the trees (basically a
"greaser landing" in the upper limbs) was far safer than stalling it in.

I decided at that time that the argument seems reasonable to me and that
I would try to fly the plane in if the situation ever came up.

I can see where flying it in might change the angle of the force such
that your spine might be in less danger, but the extra speed also
greatly increases the force.

I do greaser full-stall landings just as I was taught. If I ever have
to land in the trees, I'll do it the same way. I'll minimize the speed
of impact and try to impact at a vertical speed of nearly zero, just
like a greaser landing.


Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:

I do greaser full-stall landings just as I was taught.

I have never seen anyone do a greaser full-stall landing; the two are
contradictory. If you have enough speed to grease it on, you're not even close
to a stall. Most people rarely do full-stall landings, and nobody I know teaches
students to stall the plane in. You touch down with some flying speed.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

If you have enough speed to grease it on, you're not even close to a stall.

While this may be generally the case, it is not of necessity true. One
can stall and maintain altitude (with power). Maintain one foot of
altitude, and gradually reduce power on a calm day. Greaser.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain."
(chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:

While this may be generally the case, it is not of necessity true. One
can stall and maintain altitude (with power). Maintain one foot of
altitude, and gradually reduce power on a calm day. Greaser.

You aren't going to be doing this deadstick into the trees, that's for sure.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

You aren't going to be doing this deadstick into the trees, that's for sure.

Right. Not without a Mexican dinner.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain."
(chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

You are kidding, right?

None of the a/c flown by most of us can be 'flown' while stalled no
matter how much engine power is applied. They may be flown below normal
stall speed in such a config but they are not stalled. They can be
'dragged in' below stall speed and even smoothly landed, but not
stalled. And with power-on, the stall will probably be more exciting.

Stall speed and a stalled wing are 2 different things. Right?

Jose wrote:
If you have enough speed to grease it on, you're not even close to a
stall.


While this may be generally the case, it is not of necessity true. One
can stall and maintain altitude (with power). Maintain one foot of
altitude, and gradually reduce power on a calm day. Greaser.

Jose

None of the a/c flown by most of us can be 'flown' while stalled no matter how much engine power is applied.

Then what am I doing when I practice stalls at altitude, holding the
aircraft at the stall buffet? I suppose that's not fully stalled yet,
and when it does fully stall I would lose altitude, but ok, fly it juat
above this speed (unstalled) six inches above the runway, and reduce power.

I don't reccomend this, but put it out since it would not be impossible
to do, and would result in a full stall greaser if all conditions were
right.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain."
(chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Recently, Jose posted:

None of the a/c flown by most of us can be 'flown' while stalled no
matter how much engine power is applied.

Then what am I doing when I practice stalls at altitude, holding the
aircraft at the stall buffet?

You're holding the aircraft at just above the stall speed. When you're
stalled, you're falling, not flying.

What I thought you were describing in your earlier post was there is
adequate power to remain in flight strictly on the engine alone. Think
F-18, not C-172. ;-)

I don't reccomend this, but put it out since it would not be
impossible to do, and would result in a full stall greaser if
all conditions were right.

What you seem to describing now is one where you reach stall speed at
exactly the point where your wheels touch down. What's the point in that,
when you can grease it on at 2-3 kts above stall without the risk of being
wrong and dropping, or hitting a gust and being lifted a few feet and
*then* dropping because you don't have the airspeed to fly?

Neil

What you seem to describing now is one where you reach stall speed at
exactly the point where your wheels touch down. What's the point in that,
when you can grease it on at 2-3 kts above stall without the risk of being
wrong and dropping, or hitting a gust and being lifted a few feet and
*then* dropping because you don't have the airspeed to fly?

I was taking issue with the idea that a greaser full stall landing is
self-contradictory.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain."
(chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:52:58 GMT, Maule Driver
wrote:

You are kidding, right?

None of the a/c flown by most of us can be 'flown' while stalled no
matter how much engine power is applied. They may be flown below normal
stall speed in such a config but they are not stalled. They can be
'dragged in' below stall speed and even smoothly landed, but not
stalled. And with power-on, the stall will probably be more exciting.

Most of my landings are "full stall". The horn goes off whitht he
nose way "up there", then the stall breaks. Being that close to the
runway it just drops onto the mains, nose high.

But I agree. Once that wind stalls you are not going to stay up there.
If you don't come down the wing isn't stalled.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Stall speed and a stalled wing are 2 different things. Right?

Jose wrote:
If you have enough speed to grease it on, you're not even close to a
stall.


While this may be generally the case, it is not of necessity true. One
can stall and maintain altitude (with power). Maintain one foot of
altitude, and gradually reduce power on a calm day. Greaser.

Jose