Who does flight plans?

George Patterson wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote:


I do greaser full-stall landings just as I was taught.


I have never seen anyone do a greaser full-stall landing; the two are
contradictory. If you have enough speed to grease it on, you're not even
close to a stall. Most people rarely do full-stall landings, and nobody
I know teaches students to stall the plane in. You touch down with some
flying speed.

Not at all. You come in and level out an inch or less above the runway
and then bleed off speed until you stall and settle onto the runway. It
is very smooth when done correctly.

Maybe nobody you know does, but R.C. Johnston at N38 taught his students
this way for probably 50 years.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
George Patterson wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote:


I do greaser full-stall landings just as I was taught.


I have never seen anyone do a greaser full-stall landing; the two are
contradictory. If you have enough speed to grease it on, you're not even
close to a stall. Most people rarely do full-stall landings, and nobody
I know teaches students to stall the plane in. You touch down with some
flying speed.

Not at all. You come in and level out an inch or less above the runway
and then bleed off speed until you stall and settle onto the runway. It
is very smooth when done correctly.

Maybe nobody you know does, but R.C. Johnston at N38 taught his students
this way for probably 50 years.

Matt

That's not a full stall landing. That's flying it on.

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
George Patterson wrote:
I have never seen anyone do a greaser full-stall landing; the two are
contradictory. If you have enough speed to grease it on, you're not even
close to a stall. Most people rarely do full-stall landings, and nobody
I know teaches students to stall the plane in. You touch down with some
flying speed.

Not at all. You come in and level out an inch or less above the runway
and then bleed off speed until you stall and settle onto the runway. It
is very smooth when done correctly.

Maybe nobody you know does, but R.C. Johnston at N38 taught his students
this way for probably 50 years.

An inch or two? Chuck Yeager should be so good.

Matt Whiting wrote:

Not at all. You come in and level out an inch or less above the runway
and then bleed off speed until you stall and settle onto the runway. It
is very smooth when done correctly.

The plane isn't stalling.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

George Patterson wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote:


Not at all. You come in and level out an inch or less above the
runway and then bleed off speed until you stall and settle onto the
runway. It is very smooth when done correctly.


The plane isn't stalling.

True, it is just the wing that is stalling. At the onset of stall the
airplane will settle very smoothly to the runway assuming that the
wheels are very close when the stall occurs.

You somehow seem to think that you can let the airplane down more
gradually using elevator while at a higher speed than what occurs when
the wing stalls. This simply isn't the case in most airplanes. When
the wing stalls, the lost of list is fairly dramatic, but it still takes
time for the airplane to accelerate downward. If you are within inches
of the runway, this will set you onto the ground very gently. Few
pilots can do a more gently touchdown using elevator control alone.

It is obvious that you weren't taught full-stall landings (by that I
mean having the control wheel full-aft and the stall horn blaring at the
moment of touchdown) and don't know how they are done or how good the
results can be when done properly.

You should find an instructor competent in this area and take a lesson
or two. It will be both fun and enlightening.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
True, it is just the wing that is stalling. At the onset of stall the
airplane will settle very smoothly to the runway assuming that the wheels
are very close when the stall occurs.

You really should have gone and read this whole thread before reviving it.
This trail has been worn quite smooth already, and you're on the wrong side
of correctness with respect to the possibility of a literal "full-stall
landing".

You somehow seem to think that you can let the airplane down more
gradually using elevator while at a higher speed than what occurs when the
wing stalls. This simply isn't the case in most airplanes. When the wing
stalls, the lost of list is fairly dramatic, but it still takes time for
the airplane to accelerate downward. If you are within inches of the
runway, this will set you onto the ground very gently. Few pilots can do
a more gently touchdown using elevator control alone.

You cannot achieve a pitch angle sufficient to stall the wing while "within
inches of the runway". The tail of the airplane will hit the ground first.

It is obvious that you weren't taught full-stall landings (by that I mean
having the control wheel full-aft and the stall horn blaring at the moment
of touchdown) and don't know how they are done or how good the results can
be when done properly.

Obvious? What's obvious is that you are making statements without having
the knowledge to back them up. It's also obvious you don't have the good
sense to avoid insulting someone else's flying ability without ensuring
first that you have a clue about what you're talking about.

I can't vouch for George's flying ability, but there's nothing in his posts
to suggest it's anything less than stellar. Your denigration of his flying
skills was completely unjustified.

You should find an instructor competent in this area and take a lesson or
two. It will be both fun and enlightening.

Take your own advice.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
You cannot achieve a pitch angle sufficient to stall the wing while
"within inches of the runway". The tail of the airplane will hit the
ground first.

Pete, what are the numbers on that? (Sorry if I missed it earlier in the
thread.) Let's consider a 172. I've heard (though I don't know if this is
right) that the critical AoA for 172s is somewhere around 15-18 degrees.
Looking at the diagram in the POH, I see the wing chord at an angle of about
20 degrees to a line tangent to the underside of the main wheels and the
tail. So there seems to be room for a stalled landing--especially if there's
flap deployment, which increases the camber and AoA even further. Or am I
missing something here?

--Gary

Peter Duniho wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

True, it is just the wing that is stalling. At the onset of stall the
airplane will settle very smoothly to the runway assuming that the wheels
are very close when the stall occurs.


You really should have gone and read this whole thread before reviving it.
This trail has been worn quite smooth already, and you're on the wrong side
of correctness with respect to the possibility of a literal "full-stall
landing".

That sometimes happens when you come back from vacatoin.


You somehow seem to think that you can let the airplane down more
gradually using elevator while at a higher speed than what occurs when the
wing stalls. This simply isn't the case in most airplanes. When the wing
stalls, the lost of list is fairly dramatic, but it still takes time for
the airplane to accelerate downward. If you are within inches of the
runway, this will set you onto the ground very gently. Few pilots can do
a more gently touchdown using elevator control alone.


You cannot achieve a pitch angle sufficient to stall the wing while "within
inches of the runway". The tail of the airplane will hit the ground first.

In some airplanes, yes, but in many, no.


It is obvious that you weren't taught full-stall landings (by that I mean
having the control wheel full-aft and the stall horn blaring at the moment
of touchdown) and don't know how they are done or how good the results can
be when done properly.


Obvious? What's obvious is that you are making statements without having
the knowledge to back them up. It's also obvious you don't have the good
sense to avoid insulting someone else's flying ability without ensuring
first that you have a clue about what you're talking about.

I can't vouch for George's flying ability, but there's nothing in his posts
to suggest it's anything less than stellar. Your denigration of his flying
skills was completely unjustified.

I didn't denigrate his flying skills, simply suggested that there is a
skill he wasn't taught. Nothing to be ashamed of about that and it
certainly isn't an insult. I wasn't taught to do Immelmanns, and saying
I can't do one is hardly an insult, just a fact.


You should find an instructor competent in this area and take a lesson or
two. It will be both fun and enlightening.


Take your own advice.

I do at least once a year.

Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:

True, it is just the wing that is stalling.

No, it's not. You can't get the angle of attack required to stall the wing
without hitting the tail.

You somehow seem to think that you can let the airplane down more
gradually using elevator while at a higher speed than what occurs when
the wing stalls. This simply isn't the case in most airplanes.

Bull**** -- that's *exactly* what you are doing.

It is obvious that you weren't taught full-stall landings

No, I was taught by instructors who were educated enough to know what they were
actually doing.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

George Patterson wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote:


True, it is just the wing that is stalling.


No, it's not. You can't get the angle of attack required to stall the
wing without hitting the tail.

I get enough angle of attack that the wing will no longer support the
weight of the aircraft even with full up elevator. I'm not sure your
definition of stall, but this one works for me.


You somehow seem to think that you can let the airplane down more
gradually using elevator while at a higher speed than what occurs when
the wing stalls. This simply isn't the case in most airplanes.


Bull**** -- that's *exactly* what you are doing.

Yes, I'm using the elevator to bleed off airspeed until the wing will no
longer support the airplane. That isn't quite the same as using power
and pitch when "flying onto" the runway. The wing will still support
the weight of the airplane in that approach so you are flying it onto
the ground.


It is obvious that you weren't taught full-stall landings


No, I was taught by instructors who were educated enough to know what
they were actually doing.

How many of your instructors have been appeared in AOPA Pilot's Pilot
feature?


Matt