Rolling a Non Aerobat 150

"Sport Pilot" wrote in news:1118839018.676955.266780
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

Snipola
Using 170 pounds per person is supposed to be a legit method of
estimating the weight. Even the FAA doesn't expect you to carry a
scale and weigh the passengers and cargo. Esitmating is supposed to be
legit. So you could underestimate and be over the gross weight.

Yes, but as others have pointed out in the 30 minute reserve threads,
the FAA rules are _minimum guidelines_. It is still up to the pilot
to make sure. There may be scenarios where following the FAA rules
to the letter isn't enough.

Perhaps this isn't the best analogy, but there are times driving
around here in the LA area, especially when on my motorcycle, that
I willingly and consciously choose to break traffic laws because
doing otherwise will increase the risk to my life.

When it comes to deciding between rules and safety, I'll choose
safety every time.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Yeah. Great point. Everyone knows that the most dangerous time is when
you drive to the airport.

Yeah, everyone should decide what is safest for them regardless of stupid
rules, be they driving laws or FARs. To really increase safety on your
bike while on the "10" I'd pack a loaded 12-gauge on your rice rocket,
just like they do here in NH. Live free or die!

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
snip
I am reminded of a prospective pilot my employer was interviewing: what
would he do if he stumbled into a thunderstorm.
snip
Lower your seat all the way, put on your hat, tighten your seat belt
*tight*,
turn up the instrument lights to their brightest setting (day or night),
reduce
power, reduce speed to maneuvering speed, say a prayer. Did I forget
anything?

Yes, lower the gear if in a retract.

Matt

Explanation please. Would the air gusting inside the storm not exceed the
gear extended speed? (Dive bomber rated speed limiting brakes excepted.)

just my .02

Yes, lower the gear if in a retract.

Explanation please. Would the air gusting inside the storm not exceed the
gear extended speed? (Dive bomber rated speed limiting brakes excepted.)

Being inside a thunderstorm is an emergency. Extended gear helps you
slow down and makes the plane more stable.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain."
(chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Skylune" wrote in
lkaboutaviation.com:

Yeah, everyone should decide what is safest for them regardless of stupid
rules, be they driving laws or FARs. To really increase safety on your
bike while on the "10" I'd pack a loaded 12-gauge on your rice rocket,
just like they do here in NH. Live free or die!

Shirley, you jest!!!

I guess you didn't see a recent post by me that stated I have a
Harley. I've been riding for 18 years, before it became fashionable
to own a Harley.

A weapon also is not needed. Since I adopted my current driving style
I've not had any problems in years. This is part of my 'rule bending'.
I don't allow myself to be near other cars if at all possible, or if
I must, I take control of the interaction so as to reduce to a minimum
the possibility of any negative side effects of said interaction.

But this is getting too OT for this group. My only reason for mentioning
it all was as an analogy in support an argument.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

"Jose" wrote in message
m...
Yes, lower the gear if in a retract.

Explanation please. Would the air gusting inside the storm not exceed
the
gear extended speed? (Dive bomber rated speed limiting brakes
excepted.)

Being inside a thunderstorm is an emergency. Extended gear helps you
slow down and makes the plane more stable.
snip

IMHO an emergency does not necessarily make unapproved operation outside the
envelope desirable or acceptable.

I agree that slowing down is desirable, what I am questioning is the
desirability of increasing drag. I would want to add carb heat, throttle
back, raise the nose and AOA to fly at just above Vy. I would want to hold
attitude but not altitude. I have never been there and so this is just IMHO,
I may not be correct and.YMMV.

I would love to slow down enough to use some flaps but I would not risk the
chance that one might rip off or jam. I understand that flaps are also
undesirable in possible icing situations.

What concerns me is that exceeding the gear (or flap) extended speed makes
you a test pilot. I do not think that inside a thunderstorm with severe and
random loadings is the time to experiment with unknown flight
characteristics or of the structural strength of the gear doors or of the
increased surface area exposed to possible icing. I would be afraid that
the failure of a flap or gear door could create an asymmetric drag condition
that could affect control.

Just my .02

Sport Pilot wrote:

Using 170 pounds per person is supposed to be a legit method of
estimating the weight.

Just where does the FAA say this?

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

IMHO an emergency does not necessarily make unapproved operation outside the
envelope desirable or acceptable.

No. But it does make the benefit (of better control) more likely to be
worth the cost (of damaged parts).

What concerns me is that exceeding the gear (or flap) extended speed makes
you a test pilot. I do not think that inside a thunderstorm with severe and
random loadings is the time to experiment with unknown flight
characteristics or of the structural strength of the gear doors or of the
increased surface area exposed to possible icing.

If you are inside a thunderstorm you are already a test pilot. You are
getting close to being an ex-pilot. One would need to weigh the benefit
of the extra stability (of lowered gear) against the cost (of putting
known loadings - gear extension is not random) on an aircraft which is
being buffeted around like a banana in a blender.

Icing on the gear is much less important than icing on the wing, and if
that's what it takes to keep the wing attached, I'd make the trade. I
agree that flaps are probably not good to extend, but everything I've
read indicates that gear down is a good idea (in fact, put the gear down
before entering if you know you must enter).

Never been there, never want to, decide (either way) at your own risk.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain."
(chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

private wrote:
I agree that slowing down is desirable, what I am questioning is the
desirability of increasing drag. I would want to add carb heat, throttle
back, raise the nose and AOA to fly at just above Vy. I would want to hold
attitude but not altitude. I have never been there and so this is just IMHO,
I may not be correct and.YMMV.


I have flown through several thunderstorms and have never dropped the gear.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE