Crop Dusting with Helicopters

SMT
Hmmm this may be a partial msg! My last response headed off into the
ether..... when the nurse rig is loaded and ready, and my loader is
headed home, I do the required paperwork, then take a shower, have a
cool one, listen to some of my favorite music and read a little while
my brain slows down. The daily call to my wife for a chat, then off to
bed for an early wake-up. Normally up at 0400, stick my head out to see
if the wind is blowing, or if its raining. If a little wind, a call to
my loader who lives nearer the target fields to do a wind check and
make the decision to work or go back to bed.
I have a spray log that I fill out for the year with fields/acres
sprayed, WX comments, and at the end of the month will make one entry
in my flight log with hours flown. So much easier that way. During the
winter when I'm bored I'll sometimes take out the stack of annual logs
and riffle thru them to jog my memory. Things like the blade strikes,
wire strikes, bird strikes, and other unusual things that have happened
over the season. It helps me when I write an article and can go back to
specific dates and places. I even have some of the crudely drawn maps
that I did in my first seasons. Those really make me smile... to
realize now what I didn't have a clue about back then and survived it.
I taught quite a few pilots ag flying with both airplanes and
helicopters and nearly all of them are still flying. Several have been
in touch with me to let me know something i taught them had saved their
ass while doing ag work. That makes me really feel good. I doubt there
are more than ...ummmdunno...5000 active ag pilots in the country?
fewer each year in any case. The operators are having a really hard
time finding qualified pilots and I don't know of ANY schools that I'd
recommend to a new ag wannabe. I've been approached over and over to
start one again but not real interested. If you think about it, the new
pilot has to make mistakes to learn. The more experience he gets, the
closer to the ground you fly and other obstacles ergo less room for
error, and less room to correct mistakes. that means, I am on the edge
and letting the student get as far into the mistake as I feel safe
before I take over or correct it. Talk about pressures? Nahhh
I'm simply too old for that kind of stuff anymore.
I did take on a brand new student last year down in Mobile AL where I
live, and took him from zero to his private license in a total time of
41.5 hours. That was airplane. The first time he flew with someone else
was on his checkride and the examiner told me I did a great job with
the youngster who is now working on his commercial with a school.
I have another good friend who wants to be an ag pilot and I keep
telling him he has to move ahead with it while I'm still alive and can
help him get his first seats. He is also airplane and a good stick even
with less than 400 hours. The insurance companies are the ones who kill
the industry and I don't see any changes in the near future.
well I'm off to a leisurely sunday brunch since the wind is still
blowing and I won't fly today. I think I'll drive 20 north and take
some pics of the headwaters of the Mississippi. I once thought of
taking something like a Zodiac inflatable and making the trip the
entire length of the river. Back in my younger days....heh heh. But I
did take my Harley from San Diego to Fairbanks on the ALCAN highway
when i came back from Korea/Japan in 1956. Wouldn't fo it again on a
bet but wouldn't exchange the experience either.
Cheers
Rocky

wrote:

I doubt there are more than 5000 active ag pilots in the country.
fewer each year in any case. The operators are having a really hard
time finding qualified pilots and I don't know of ANY schools that
I'd recommend to a new ag wannabe.

Well thanks once again for taking the time to tell the group what life
is like in the real world.

That number 5000 at first glance seems like such a high number.

You don't realize how big a country is until you start to look at how
many pilots it takes just to provide the services to such a specialized
industry.

If many of the pilots are approaching retirement age like you are, then
I could certainly see where the operators will have a realy hard time
filling those seats.

There was a guy that used to post here a few years ago that ran a small
business with a couple of fixed wing and a helicopter as I recall.

Can't remember his name but I sure miss his participation.

So do you see a day when the last Bell 47, Hughes 300 etc. bites the
dust, and what will replace them..... Bell 206 turbines or similar.??

Speaking of turbines.

Are there operators out there who operate turbines as apposed to piston
jobbies.

I realize that operating costs would be higher, but would there be a
higher payload that would offset this.

FINALLY ..... What sort of jobs lend itself to rotary as apposed to
fixed wing spraying.

I imagine location and obstacles like those pesky wires would be a
major factor but are there other factors where one is more practical
than the other.

Who could spray more in an hour.... helicopter or fixed wing.

I'll bet my money on the helicopter.

Although I got to admit that some of those AG Cats like the
801 model on amphibs sure look nice.

But I did take my Harley from San Diego to Fairbanks on the ALCAN highway
when i came back from Korea/Japan in 1956. Wouldn't fo it again on a
bet but wouldn't exchange the experience either.

Hey I spent ten years up in the Yukon in the sixties.

I can remember driving the ALCAN highway on more than one occaision.

I could tell some stories about some of those trips.

Well we had heavy T'storms last night but now it looks good. waiting
for the plants to dry a little so the chemical sticks instead of
running off. I've asked at the National Aerial Applicators Association
annual convention several times over the years about how many ag pilots
there were and 5K is about right. Perhaps that many more foreign. small
pool any way you look at it! And we always look around at all the gray
haired farts and wonder where the new blood is. I think the average age
is 50'ish. As for aircraft, turbines are slowly taking over. There are
a number of conversions done by Soloy on the Bell 47 and Hiller 12E and
are for the most part good working machines. expensive but good
workers. Parts are a problem and will continue until someone bites the
bullet and starts new production. Several attempts have been made but
none lasted that long. Market is too small to really support the heavy
investment. That is the primary reason Robinson has been so successful.
There were some guys up in the NW who did some wheat spraying with R-22
but I haven't heard much about them.
An airplane can outwork the helicopter because of bigger loads. They
can do 2-400 acres per hour while I am happy to get a steady 100 acres
per hour. Aairplanes need big fields to support them. but they also
need a lot of turnaround area and people don't like the noise of low
flying aircraft. I can get into a field, spray it and never leave the
confines of the target field until I depart. In this area there are a
lot of lakes and summer homes where the folks like the solitude and
copmplain if ANYONE/thing makes too much noise. they are mostly city
people who come up for weekends or vacations.
Gotta get my old butt in gear and go make some money. It looks like
another fly till dark (2100)
Cheers
Rocky

wrote:

and 5K is about right.

OKAY----- Here I am playing devil's advocate.

If your the only pilot on your machine then one pilot = one machine.

If only 2000 pilots are actively working at any given time and the
pilot to machine ratio is the same then 2000 pilots = 2000 machines.

So the curious question is how many machines are there out there
being used in the AG business.

Now here is the spoiler.

Some of those pilots fly fixed wing some fly helicopters.

So how many AG helicopter pilots are there out there and of
course how many helicopters are there doing AG work.

I was under the impression that the number of bell 47 type machines
still flying period..... was very very small.

Now if turbines are being used on a more frequent basis as you say then
your comment about turbines showing up makes a lot of sense.

KEVIN.... I know your reading this.

Maybe there is a turbine job in your future after all.

Now Bart made a comment in another thread about the Safari
Baby Bell.

I understand from what I've read about it that it is about
two thirds the size of a 47 which really wouldn't matter
for AG work.... I would think.

Payload would be the issue...... Don't know is Stu is floating around
these days ( he owns one ), but does anyone here know if the payload
on one of those machines would be comparable to a Bell 47.

If if was, you would think there might be a nice little niche market
for Safari to fill that could help them sell machines for decades to
come.

Wow am I ever being wordy and curious today. All that on only one cup
of coffee.

The only similarity between the Bell 47 and the Safari is the looks.
I would not want to do Ag work with it.

hennie

"SHIVER ME TIMBERS" wrote in message
...
wrote:

and 5K is about right.

OKAY----- Here I am playing devil's advocate.

If your the only pilot on your machine then one pilot = one machine.

If only 2000 pilots are actively working at any given time and the
pilot to machine ratio is the same then 2000 pilots = 2000 machines.

So the curious question is how many machines are there out there
being used in the AG business.

Now here is the spoiler.

Some of those pilots fly fixed wing some fly helicopters.

So how many AG helicopter pilots are there out there and of
course how many helicopters are there doing AG work.

I was under the impression that the number of bell 47 type machines
still flying period..... was very very small.

Now if turbines are being used on a more frequent basis as you say then
your comment about turbines showing up makes a lot of sense.

KEVIN.... I know your reading this.

Maybe there is a turbine job in your future after all.

Now Bart made a comment in another thread about the Safari
Baby Bell.

I understand from what I've read about it that it is about
two thirds the size of a 47 which really wouldn't matter
for AG work.... I would think.

Payload would be the issue...... Don't know is Stu is floating around
these days ( he owns one ), but does anyone here know if the payload
on one of those machines would be comparable to a Bell 47.

If if was, you would think there might be a nice little niche market
for Safari to fill that could help them sell machines for decades to
come.

Wow am I ever being wordy and curious today. All that on only one cup
of coffee.

Hennie Roets wrote:

Hey Hennie..... Nice to hear from you again.

So is today the first day of winter over there in your neck of the
woods.

Today's the longest day over here.

So out of curiousity.... What sort of AG operations do they
have over in South Africa and Africa in general.

Is it a big or small industry.

You know me..... I'm curious, so I'll ask you if you feel up to doing a
little narrative about your flying activities, what sort of things do
you do in the aviation industry, etc., etc., etc.

No, we are slap bang in the middle of the winter. So far it was not to bad.

There is a lot of fixed wing ag operations going on with almost no
rotorcraft AG work.
A friend of mine had a Enstrom with which he did some AG work.

They use helicopters a lot in game capturing operations mainly 300's R22's
and the odd Jet Ranger.

Not a very big industry , I posted some figures on licences and aircraft in
another thread about a week ago
under "Is this forum still operating".

I am mainly a recreational pilot. Fly my R22 over weekends. We also do a
helicopter trip once a year to
some nice locations in South Africa. This year we got invited while flying
past "Waterloo" who is the main
military airfield in South Africa to do a fly past along the runway. We
were 5 helicopters ranging from a R44,
R22 , Bell 47 and two Kompresses which is a Italian experimental.
Rocky might still remember the place. In the earlier years they locked you
up if you even got to close.

I also did a bit of game capturing helping my brother who is in the hunting
business.

I am also involved in experimental aircraft, just finished a all metal 2
seater low wing aircraft using a converted
Suzuki car engine (1600 cc 16 valve) that I converted to electronic
ignition and fuel injection. We already did
a few test flights and everything seems to be OK.

Want to get that out of the way because I have a Helicycle turbine project
on the way.

Regards

hennie


"SHIVER ME TIMBERS" wrote in message
...
Hennie Roets wrote:

Hey Hennie..... Nice to hear from you again.

So is today the first day of winter over there in your neck of the
woods.

Today's the longest day over here.

So out of curiousity.... What sort of AG operations do they
have over in South Africa and Africa in general.

Is it a big or small industry.

You know me..... I'm curious, so I'll ask you if you feel up to doing a
little narrative about your flying activities, what sort of things do
you do in the aviation industry, etc., etc., etc.

Now THESE are the posts that make wading through the usual "Earn quick
money now!" crap worth it. I love reading the day-to-day exploits of a
career helicopter pilot.

I'm a private pilot working on the commercial rating but that's mostly
just for the added proficiency (and bragging rights, to be honest 8^) )
- I will probably never earn a single shiny simolean flying a
helicopter. So, SelwayKid (and others), keep this stuff coming. I love
it.

This makes me wonder again what happened to Bob Barbanes - he had some
fine stories to tell here but AFAIK he disappeared from the group a
couple years ago.

Dave Blevins

On 20 Jun 2005 05:58:53 -0700, wrote:

Well we had heavy T'storms last night but now it looks good.

..snip.

wrote:

This makes me wonder again what happened to Bob Barbanes - he had some
fine stories to tell here

Yes he has been heard from in a couple of years.

Last I heard through the group he was test flying turbine machines
for one of the manufacturers.

Correct. I talked with him a couple months ago. He is still in the
Pensacola area.
Rocky