VFR Flight Following -- What's going on here?

Jay Honeck wrote:

Now that I think about it, I suppose we could have asked Flight Watch
to notify Chicago Center when we could no longer hear them, but frankly
it never dawned on me that Chicago really cared that much about what
happened outside of their Class B airspace.

First, Chicago Center doesn't give a crap what happens in the Chicago
Class B.

I've had radar facilities chase me down after I've lost comms with them
during VFR FF. They want to make sure they didn't lose you and
something bad happened to you (like you crashed). Just consider it
an extra service.

Now that I think about it, I suppose we could have asked Flight Watch
to notify Chicago Center when we could no longer hear them, but frankly
it never dawned on me that Chicago really cared that much about what
happened outside of their Class B airspace.

First, Chicago Center doesn't give a crap what happens in the Chicago
Class B.

Ah, true enough. I have mistakenly been using the terms "Approach" and
"Center" interchangeably in this thread.

"Chicago Center" is always cooperative and helpful, and will
unfailingly provide flight following all the way to Iowa City (if
we're high enough, which we rarely are) if requested.

"Chicago Approach" is the ATC facility in question here. They are the
ones who called the Rantoul airport manager, and they are the ones who
usually will not provide VFR flight following.

Which is why I was (and am) so surprised that they actually took the
time to call Rantoul when we lost radio contact with them. They are
usually not so helpful.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City

The way the SAR system works is that once the FAA has radar contact with
you and are providing radar services, they will continue to do so unless
they are unable (due to lack of radar coverage) or you cancel them. If
you fall below their radar coverage while utilizing their services, then
they begin the SAR process. It goes something like this:

1) They attempt to establish radio contact.
2) They contact the FSS and the FAA issues an INREQ
3) After 15/30 mins (my memory fails me as to which # that is), an ALNOT
is issued. At this time, the FAA starts calling around to airports and
doing ramp checks. They also (if a flight plan was entered into the
system) will start making calls to the locations listed in your flight plan.
4) If you still cannot be located, SAR agencies, such as the Civil Air
Patrol, Sheriff's Office SAR teams, etc are activated. The process goes
on from there.

You got caught in Step 3, for which they're actually glad to catch you,
even if they don't always sound it. It's much better than the alternative.

Chris


Jay Honeck wrote:
Now that I think about it, I suppose we could have asked Flight Watch
to notify Chicago Center when we could no longer hear them, but frankly
it never dawned on me that Chicago really cared that much about what
happened outside of their Class B airspace.


First, Chicago Center doesn't give a crap what happens in the Chicago
Class B.


Ah, true enough. I have mistakenly been using the terms "Approach" and
"Center" interchangeably in this thread.

"Chicago Center" is always cooperative and helpful, and will
unfailingly provide flight following all the way to Iowa City (if
we're high enough, which we rarely are) if requested.

"Chicago Approach" is the ATC facility in question here. They are the
ones who called the Rantoul airport manager, and they are the ones who
usually will not provide VFR flight following.

Which is why I was (and am) so surprised that they actually took the
time to call Rantoul when we lost radio contact with them. They are
usually not so helpful.

"Chris G." nospam@noemail wrote in message
eenews.net...
The way the SAR system works is that once the FAA has radar contact with
you and are providing radar services, they will continue to do so unless
they are unable (due to lack of radar coverage) or you cancel them. If
you fall below their radar coverage while utilizing their services, then
they begin the SAR process.

I have never seen any documentation of this claim, for VFR aircraft. My
understanding is that the scenario in this thread was motivated solely at
the discretion of the controller, that there is no automatic search and
rescue for abnormally terminated flight following, and that only a VFR
flight plan guarantees a search and rescue attempt for missing VFR flights.

Can you provide a reference to something that supports the idea that
airplanes getting VFR flight following are given automatic search and rescue
if they somehow are "lost" from the controller (either radio or radar
contact lost)?

Thanks,
Pete

I have placed a call to the local FSDO for the exact regulations
governing this, but I speak from experience, having been a State SAR
Coordinator backup for the State of Oregon a few years ago.

Chris


Peter Duniho wrote:
"Chris G." nospam@noemail wrote in message
eenews.net...

The way the SAR system works is that once the FAA has radar contact with
you and are providing radar services, they will continue to do so unless
they are unable (due to lack of radar coverage) or you cancel them. If
you fall below their radar coverage while utilizing their services, then
they begin the SAR process.


I have never seen any documentation of this claim, for VFR aircraft. My
understanding is that the scenario in this thread was motivated solely at
the discretion of the controller, that there is no automatic search and
rescue for abnormally terminated flight following, and that only a VFR
flight plan guarantees a search and rescue attempt for missing VFR flights.

Can you provide a reference to something that supports the idea that
airplanes getting VFR flight following are given automatic search and rescue
if they somehow are "lost" from the controller (either radio or radar
contact lost)?

Thanks,
Pete

Chris G. wrote:

I have placed a call to the local FSDO for the exact regulations
governing this, but I speak from experience, having been a State SAR
Coordinator backup for the State of Oregon a few years ago.

FSDO is not the right place to call. Call your local TRACON or Center.

Newps,

Are you a Center controller? If so e-mail me off list I have a question

wrDOTgiaconaATcoxDOTnet

remove the big stuff

Newps wrote:
FSDO is not the right place to call. Call your local TRACON or Center.

Actually, the FSDO in Hillsboro, Oregon, was VERY helpful. There is no
need to bug the tracon or center with this question. They're busy
making sure planes get to where they need to be.

Chris

PS, your name is?

The local FSDO helped me quite a bit in finding the references I need.
Look in FAA Order 7110.65 Para. 10-2-5 (2b). I've quoted it for your
convenience and the link is provided. It references Jay's specific
situation.
http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/ATC/Chp10/atc1002.html#10-2-5

Chris G.


10-2-5. EMERGENCY SITUATIONS
Consider that an aircraft emergency exists and inform the RCC or ARTCC
and alert the appropriate DF facility when:
NOTE-
1. USAF facilities are only required to notify the ARTCC.
2. The requirement to alert DF facilities may be deleted if radar
contact will be maintained throughout the duration of the emergency.
a. An emergency is declared by either:
1. The pilot.
2. Facility personnel.
3. Officials responsible for the operation of the aircraft.
b. There is unexpected loss of radar contact and radio
communications with any IFR or VFR aircraft.
c. Reports indicate it has made a forced landing, is about to do
so, or its operating efficiency is so impaired that a forced landing
will be necessary.
d. Reports indicate the crew has abandoned the aircraft or is about
to do so.
e. An emergency radar beacon response is received.
NOTE-
EN ROUTE. During Stage A operation, Code 7700 causes EMRG to blink
in field E of the data block.
f. Intercept or escort aircraft services are required.
g. The need for ground rescue appears likely.
h. An Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) signal is heard or reported.
REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Providing Assistance, Para 10-1-3.
FAAO 7110.65, Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) Signals, Para
10-2-10.


Chris G. wrote:
I have placed a call to the local FSDO for the exact regulations
governing this, but I speak from experience, having been a State SAR
Coordinator backup for the State of Oregon a few years ago.

Chris


Peter Duniho wrote:

"Chris G." nospam@noemail wrote in message
eenews.net...

The way the SAR system works is that once the FAA has radar contact
with you and are providing radar services, they will continue to do
so unless they are unable (due to lack of radar coverage) or you
cancel them. If you fall below their radar coverage while utilizing
their services, then they begin the SAR process.



I have never seen any documentation of this claim, for VFR aircraft.
My understanding is that the scenario in this thread was motivated
solely at the discretion of the controller, that there is no automatic
search and rescue for abnormally terminated flight following, and that
only a VFR flight plan guarantees a search and rescue attempt for
missing VFR flights.

Can you provide a reference to something that supports the idea that
airplanes getting VFR flight following are given automatic search and
rescue if they somehow are "lost" from the controller (either radio or
radar contact lost)?

Thanks,
Pete

The local FSDO helped me quite a bit in finding the references I need.
Look in FAA Order 7110.65 Para. 10-2-5 (2b). I've quoted it for your
convenience
10-2-5. EMERGENCY SITUATIONS
BIG SNIP

I was having an emergency?

Perhaps that was my problem -- I didn't consider the lack of planning (i.e.:
Poor radio coverage in the Rantoul area) on Chicago's part to be an
emergency on my part.

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"