14 yr old pilot

Larry Dighera wrote:
The kid's alleged behavior (being under age and driving his mother's
car presumably on a public street without possessing a driver's
licence nor her permission, and flying an aircraft without benefit of
license nor permission to use the aircraft) is irresponsible and
illegal. An adult would have been prosecuted with those crimes (and
may still be).
----------------------------------reply-----------------------------------------------------

Hello All,

The statutes in Alabama that are used to prosecute a juvenile in Alabama are
different from the adult charges. If there is a charge, it will be
"violation of Youthful Offender Statutes". In other words, the charge will
have no name such as theft of property, etc.. The young man's criminal
history, if convicted, will read "Youthful Offender".

We are hosting a CAP SARX this weekend so I'm sure some of the folks from
that part of the State will have the inside scoop.

Stephen Pearce
Foley, Alabama

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
...
"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...
Well, many states finding figured out that downplaying car theft to
"joyriding" had averse effect

Evidence please?

Well, in the early 90's, Colorado boosted their law on auto theft for that
reason. And I understand Arizona did likewise in the mid 90's. I suspect
there's more than just the two I'm familiar with.

But what evidence (if any) was there that the previous laws were less
effective than more severe ones? The mere fact that a legislature decided to
boost the penalties doesn't mean there was any good reason to think that the
previous statutes were less effective. The legislators could just have been
pandering to ideologues whose policy preferences are not based on sound
evidence.

--Gary

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:37:43 GMT, George Patterson
wrote in rhCte.2$Z.0@trndny05::



Ok, I read it again. Where does force come into the matter?


In Section 13A-8-11, to which I mistakenly thought Mr. Dixon was
referring.

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
...
"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...
Well, many states finding figured out that downplaying car theft to
"joyriding" had averse effect

Evidence please?

Well, in the early 90's, Colorado boosted their law on auto theft for that
reason. And I understand Arizona did likewise in the mid 90's. I suspect
there's more than just the two I'm familiar with.

In addition to your having no evidence to support your assertion that lesser
penalties for unauthorized joyriding have been found to have "adverse
effect", it turns out that the criminal codes in both Colorado and Arizona
(the only examples you cited) do in fact provide for lesser offenses and
penalties for joyriding than for theft.

Arizona's article 13-1803 defines the offense of "Unlawful use of means of
transportation": "A person commits unlawful use of means of transportation
if, without intent permanently to deprive, the person either: 1. Knowingly
takes unauthorized control over another person's means of transportation. 2.
Knowingly is transported or physically located in a vehicle that the person
knows or has reason to know is in the unlawful possession of another person
pursuant to paragraph 1 or section 13-1814.".

Colorado makes an even more sweeping distinction between theft and temporary
unauthorized use. In Colorado, the distinction isn't limited to vehicles,
but applies to theft in general. Colorado's article 18-4-401 defines theft
as follows: "(1) A person commits theft when he knowingly obtains or
exercises control over anything of value of another without authorization,
or by threat or deception, and: (a) Intends to deprive the other person
permanently of the use or benefit of the thing of value; or (b) Knowingly
uses, conceals, or abandons the thing of value in such manner as to deprive
the other person permanently of its use or benefit; or (c) Uses, conceals,
or abandons the thing of value intending that such use, concealment, or
abandonment will deprive the other person permanently of its use and
benefit; or (d) Demands any consideration to which he is not legally
entitled as a condition of restoring the thing of value to the other
person."

--Gary

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:40:24 GMT, George Patterson
wrote in YjCte.3$Z.1@trndny05::


How the hell can anyone say with a straight face that stealing isn't theft?

I'm not going to look up the statute, but if I recall correctly, in
California a homeowner with a swimming pool in his/her backyard must
have it fenced and keep all gates *locked* or face prosecution for
creating an attractive nuisance. As the airport and aircraft were not
locked in this case, and the ignition key was on a clipboard in the
aircraft, it would seem the aircraft owner was guilty of creating an
attractive nuisance in this case.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:40:24 GMT, George Patterson
wrote in YjCte.3$Z.1@trndny05::


How the hell can anyone say with a straight face that stealing isn't
theft?

I'm not going to look up the statute, but if I recall correctly, in
California a homeowner with a swimming pool in his/her backyard must
have it fenced and keep all gates *locked* or face prosecution for
creating an attractive nuisance. As the airport and aircraft were not
locked in this case, and the ignition key was on a clipboard in the
aircraft, it would seem the aircraft owner was guilty of creating an
attractive nuisance in this case.

Even if that's true, it has nothing to do with whether or not the act
constitutes theft.

--Gary

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:40:24 GMT, George Patterson
wrote in YjCte.3$Z.1@trndny05::

How the hell can anyone say with a straight face that stealing isn't theft?

I'm not going to look up the statute, but if I recall correctly, in
California a homeowner with a swimming pool in his/her backyard must
have it fenced and keep all gates *locked* or face prosecution for
creating an attractive nuisance.

Sorta hard to steal a swimming pool.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

George Patterson wrote:

Sorta hard to steal a swimming pool.

http://www.berlinien.de/immobilien/bericht1748.html

Larry Dighera wrote:
I'm not going to look up the statute, but if I recall correctly, in
California a homeowner with a swimming pool in his/her backyard must
have it fenced and keep all gates *locked* or face prosecution for
creating an attractive nuisance. As the airport and aircraft were not
locked in this case, and the ignition key was on a clipboard in the
aircraft, it would seem the aircraft owner was guilty of creating an
attractive nuisance in this case.

It was careless for the ignition key to be there, no doubt, but whatever
happened to the old, basic, 9X-out-of-10 accurate logic that if you TAKE
something that doesn't belong to you without the owner's knowledge,
regardless of what you plan to use it for, you've STOLEN it? or that if
you enter someone else's yard or home without their knowledge, YOU are
the one in the wrong for trespassing, regardless of whether the gate was
locked or not?!

In an effort to twist straightforward laws to suit the rare cases where
someone may have had an explainable reason, they've given the common
criminal who *definitely* knows that what he's doing is against the law
10 different possible defenses and made the owner of the property
responsible for any and all damages in a lot of cases! Go figure.

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:31:22 -0400, "Gary Drescher"
wrote in
::


Even if that's true, it has nothing to do with whether or not the act
constitutes theft.

I think it relates to establishing culpability for the flight.

If a person drowns in a pool with an unlocked gate, I believe the
homeowner can be held responsible even if the person was an intruder.

I'm not attempting to assert that this statute is directly applicable
in this case, but it seems to establish some responsibility on the
part of attractive nuisance owners to prevent unauthorized use.