KVUO to KAST & Back IFR 1.8 Act. 2.7 Total "First In Act. IFR X-C"

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
[...]
Portland Approach Was Calling Out Traffic, Traffic 10:00 3,000' I
Responded
Portland We are at 5,000' Solid IFR Unable to See Traffic! Dose This
Happen
a Lot While IFR???? Was My Response Correct?

ATC has no way to know whether you are in a cloud or not. So they report
any traffic, as they would at any other time. As long as you acknowledge
the traffic report (so ATC knows you heard them), it probably doesn't matter
much what you actually say. Even in VMC, a traffic report may or may not
result in visual contact with the reported traffic, and ATC doesn't seem to
worry much about that.

5 Min Clearance Void Time, Dose this Happen a Lot, kinda puts the pressure
on ya!

Yes, it does. I try to avoid IFR clearances from the ground at
uncontrolled airports, but it's sometimes the only reasonable procedure.
Most of the time, I have been successful in either getting a larger window,
or a delayed window, or both. I especially like the delayed window, because
it allows ATC to decide how long to keep the airspace clear, but gives me
enough time to get back to the airplane, start up and get my taxi and runup
done in a relaxed manner.

Basically, just tell them when you think you'll actually be taking off, and
then get a clearance for that time, rather than for the moment at which
you're calling (unless, of course, you are at the runway ready to go,
talking on a cell phone).

Dose anyone use any products like Visine ect for their eyes for extended
periods of IFR time?

Um...do you use Visine for VFR flight? If not, you should have no need to
use it during IFR flight. Staying focused on the instruments doesn't mean
you should forget to blink.

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:

Even in VMC, a traffic report may or may not
result in visual contact with the reported traffic, and ATC doesn't seem to
worry much about that.

Hummm ... When I get a traffic report from ATC and I can't spot the traffic,
the controller usually asks me after a minute or two whether I've spotted it or
not. Wonder if this is an eastcoast/westcoast thing?

This is usually VFR through or into class-C or class-D airspace, so I'm talking
to approach.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:Sg5ue.8201$R6.380@trndny04...
Hummm ... When I get a traffic report from ATC and I can't spot the
traffic, the controller usually asks me after a minute or two whether I've
spotted it or not. Wonder if this is an eastcoast/westcoast thing?

Don't know. I usually am able to find the traffic, and do report being in
IMC if that's the case. But I can't remember a single time ATC prodded me
again to see if I was still looking for the traffic or not. That doesn't
mean it's never happened to me, but it certainly doesn't happen often if it
does.

I do fly primarily on the west coast, but I've made flights with extensive
contact with ATC across the entire country, including a couple of
corner-to-corner flights, one of which even took me over to the Bahamas, and
one of which was actually more of a "Z" shape (*) than a beeline from
Florida to Washington State. At least in the brief periods of time I was
flying on the east coast, I didn't experience anything like that.

I never did wind up farther north than Maryland, so maybe it's a Northeast
thing?

I have had ATC follow up a traffic call with a "traffic no factor" if I
haven't reported the traffic in sight (and sometimes even if I have). But
they've never bugged me about whether I've seen the traffic or not, if I
failed to report back to them about that.

This is usually VFR through or into class-C or class-D airspace, so I'm
talking to approach.

Well, one thing I wonder is how ATC's obligation changes if you report the
traffic in sight. That is, if they are providing you with separation
services, but you can report some traffic in sight, maybe they then do not
have to provide you with vectors. Of course, for VFR traffic this is a moot
point, but if they're in the habit of doing it for IFR traffic, they might
still do it for VFR traffic.

If that's the case, then I'd expect that habit to be more pronounced in more
congested airspace, such as that found in the Northeast. Even the Southeast
US doesn't have the traffic density, and in that respect is more similar to
the West.

Pete

(*) I hesitate to even bother fixing the "Z" reference, but I will anyway;
it's imprecise and that bugs me. The route was more of a "Z" rotated 90
degrees, then flipped about the horizontal axis, and finally stretched so
that the middle segment was nearly horizontal. North from Florida, then
almost due West to Lake Tahoe, then finally North again to Seattle. I
covered a lot more airspace during that trip than I did on my true
"corner-to-corner" flight.

Peter Duniho wrote:

Well, one thing I wonder is how ATC's obligation changes if you report the
traffic in sight. That is, if they are providing you with separation
services, but you can report some traffic in sight, maybe they then do not
have to provide you with vectors. Of course, for VFR traffic this is a moot
point, but if they're in the habit of doing it for IFR traffic, they might
still do it for VFR traffic.

ATC maintains the responsibility for IFR-IFR separation unless you hear
"maintain visual separation from that traffic...".

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1119443531.891507@sj-nntpcache-3...
ATC maintains the responsibility for IFR-IFR separation unless you hear
"maintain visual separation from that traffic...".

But they are unlikely to make that statement unless you tell them you have
the aircraft in sight. So perhaps that is their motivation for the
follow-up radio calls asking if that's the case.

Peter Duniho wrote:

I never did wind up farther north than Maryland, so maybe it's a Northeast
thing?

Not northeast, AFAIK. The two that I remember most clearly were with Knoxville,
TN and Roanoke, VA. With Knoxville, I think the controller was required to
maintain separation until I spotted the traffic, but I never figured the ROA
situation out. A Mooney was IFR going south and I was VFR headed north. We
passed each other separated by at least half a mile laterally and 500'
vertically, but the controller called several times about it.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

Pete wrote:

Even in VMC, a traffic report may or may not
result in visual contact with the reported traffic, and ATC doesn't seem to
worry much about that.

In the northeast US, my experience differs. I have received climbs,
descents, and heading change instructions sooner after reporting visual
contact with reported traffic, whether the other aircraft were VFR or
IFR. While true that ATC may not worry whether I make contact or not,
I am pretty sure I am reducing their workload a bit when I do.

Just last Monday I was IFR and climbing out of my home airport to an
interim altitude assigned by ATC. Looking up ahead, I spotted a Cessna
Caravan at about 2,500 feet above me, crossing my flight path left to
right, that had not yet been announced by ATC. Thinking this might
have been the reason for my interim altitude (and hoping I could
prevent a level-off, which requires a lot of configuration change in
the Bonanza), I took it upon myself to call "unreported traffic at 11
o'clock in sight." ATC responded with, "Thank you. Maintain visual
separation with that aircraft, climb and maintain (my final filed
altitude)."

--
Peter