who uses FSS?

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

The way the system should work, is he types in your callsign and hits
the "cancel IFR" button. Should work from any terminal anywhere in the
world. But, I guess given that we're all flying airplanes with 1950's
technology, it's only fair that FSS is using 1950's technology too.


That would appear to give a lot of people the ability to cancel an IFR
flight plan. Is that a good idea?

In article t,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

The way the system should work, is he types in your callsign and hits
the "cancel IFR" button. Should work from any terminal anywhere in the
world. But, I guess given that we're all flying airplanes with 1950's
technology, it's only fair that FSS is using 1950's technology too.


That would appear to give a lot of people the ability to cancel an IFR
flight plan. Is that a good idea?



A lot of people have the ability to cancel an IFR flight plan right now.
All I need do is call an FSS on the phone and say, "This is N12345, on
the ground at XYZ, cancel IFR" and nobody asks me to prove that I am who
I say I am. For that matter, I can stand on the ramp with a handheld
and pull the same stunt via radio.

But, in any case, I was talking about a terminal connected to the ATC
system. There is just no good reason (other than continued use of
archaic technology) why a FSS guy in Bridgeport shouldn't be able to
close an IFR flight plan for somebody who just landed at a field in
Texas and is calling in on his Connecticut-based cellphone.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

A lot of people have the ability to cancel an IFR flight plan right now.
All I need do is call an FSS on the phone and say, "This is N12345, on
the ground at XYZ, cancel IFR" and nobody asks me to prove that I am who
I say I am. For that matter, I can stand on the ramp with a handheld
and pull the same stunt via radio.


A lot of people would have that ability if a lot of people knew N12345 was
on an IFR flight to XYZ. On your typical IFR trips, how many people know
your N-number and destination?



But, in any case, I was talking about a terminal connected to the ATC
system. There is just no good reason (other than continued use of
archaic technology) why a FSS guy in Bridgeport shouldn't be able to
close an IFR flight plan for somebody who just landed at a field in
Texas and is calling in on his Connecticut-based cellphone.


If you're going to imagine a new capability for IFR flight plans why bother
with FSS at all? Why not just route a call to 1-800-IFR-PLAN to the
appropriate ATC position?

Even if it is cancelled with FSS, I don't think that is going to filter to ATC
and result in an automatic cancel without at least querying the pilot.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

"Ray Andraka" wrote in message
...

Even if it is cancelled with FSS, I don't think that is going to filter to
ATC
and result in an automatic cancel without at least querying the pilot.


An IFR flight plan is not cancelled when the pilot calls FSS, it's cancelled
when the FSS then calls ATC.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
news
A lot of people would have that ability if a lot of people knew N12345
was on an IFR flight to XYZ. On your typical IFR trips, how many
people know your N-number and destination?

My first thought is... "Anyone who paid $9.95 to Flight Explorer."

If you're going to imagine a new capability for IFR flight plans why
bother with FSS at all? Why not just route a call to 1-800-IFR-PLAN
to the appropriate ATC position?

Some of this is not the FAA's problem, it's the phone companies. There
is a mechanism the phone company offers that allows a call to an 800
number to be routed to a "local" service center. Unfortunately, this
was implemented before cell phones. There is NOT a mechanism (that I am
aware of) that allows the calls to be routed based on the LOCATION of
the cell phone, but rather only based on the "licensed" location of the
cell phone... i.e. home.

So if you buy your cell phone in New York, travel to LA, and call FSS -
you get New York FSS. It's dumb, but it's the way it is.

FWIW, I **would** normally have checked the AF/D (which now prints the
local FSS phone numbers), but I had not anticipated the need. The
forecast was for ceilings 6000, which would have easily allowed for both
canceling on the ground and likewise picking up my new clearance
airborne. [Usually good in that area down to about 1200 MSL.] But, as
we all know, there are forecasts, and there is *weather*!

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

My experience is that this is completely random. Sometimes my cellphone
gives me the local FSS correspondiong to where I am, sometimes it
gives me Oakland - as it would if I called it from my home airport, except
that there is no cellphone coverage at my home airport.

Generally, implementation of cellphones in the US calls to mind the
observation once made (a long time ago) about Englishwomen's
shoes: that they appear to have been made by someone who has
heard shoes described, but never actually seen one. It blows my mind
that the heart of Silicon Valley has grossly inadequate cellphone coverage,
for example, but it's true. And as for international roaming with a US
phone, good luck.

John

"James M. Knox" wrote in message
...
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
news
A lot of people would have that ability if a lot of people knew N12345
was on an IFR flight to XYZ. On your typical IFR trips, how many
people know your N-number and destination?

My first thought is... "Anyone who paid $9.95 to Flight Explorer."

If you're going to imagine a new capability for IFR flight plans why
bother with FSS at all? Why not just route a call to 1-800-IFR-PLAN
to the appropriate ATC position?

Some of this is not the FAA's problem, it's the phone companies. There
is a mechanism the phone company offers that allows a call to an 800
number to be routed to a "local" service center. Unfortunately, this
was implemented before cell phones. There is NOT a mechanism (that I am
aware of) that allows the calls to be routed based on the LOCATION of
the cell phone, but rather only based on the "licensed" location of the
cell phone... i.e. home.

So if you buy your cell phone in New York, travel to LA, and call FSS -
you get New York FSS. It's dumb, but it's the way it is.

FWIW, I **would** normally have checked the AF/D (which now prints the
local FSS phone numbers), but I had not anticipated the need. The
forecast was for ceilings 6000, which would have easily allowed for both
canceling on the ground and likewise picking up my new clearance
airborne. [Usually good in that area down to about 1200 MSL.] But, as
we all know, there are forecasts, and there is *weather*!

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

"John Harper" wrote in message news:1065572854.391864@sj-nntpcache-3...
My experience is that this is completely random

The number presented to the 800 routing is the billing number. Depending
on how you are injected into the cellular network it may be your home number
or a number geographically similar to it, or it maybe something dependent on
the cellular carrier whose system you are locally using

"James M. Knox" wrote in message
...

Some of this is not the FAA's problem, it's the phone companies. There
is a mechanism the phone company offers that allows a call to an 800
number to be routed to a "local" service center. Unfortunately, this
was implemented before cell phones. There is NOT a mechanism (that I am
aware of) that allows the calls to be routed based on the LOCATION of
the cell phone, but rather only based on the "licensed" location of the
cell phone... i.e. home.

So if you buy your cell phone in New York, travel to LA, and call FSS -
you get New York FSS. It's dumb, but it's the way it is.


I recall reading about this problem some years ago, it had to do with cell
phone calls to 911. Was that deficiency not corrected?



FWIW, I **would** normally have checked the AF/D (which now prints the
local FSS phone numbers), but I had not anticipated the need. The
forecast was for ceilings 6000, which would have easily allowed for both
canceling on the ground and likewise picking up my new clearance
airborne. [Usually good in that area down to about 1200 MSL.] But, as
we all know, there are forecasts, and there is *weather*!


I assume you meant "canceling in the air".

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
ink.net:

I recall reading about this problem some years ago, it had to do with
cell phone calls to 911. Was that deficiency not corrected?

Nope. I have the similar problem with 311 (911 for urgent but not
emergency situations). If I call to report an unsafe condition while
driving to or from the airport I will get Austin (where my phone is
located). They will have to transfer me to the more local police
department in whatever city I am actually calling from.

Eventually e911 will solve this particular problem, but by a different
mechanism. Still won't help with things like FSS.

I assume you meant "canceling in the air".

Doh! Yes, quite correct.

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------