MOA??

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"John Doe" wrote
ATC owns the MOA.

In what way?

If need be, they can block the military aircraft in the MOA to altitude
deconflict from you under you're through.

No they can't. They don't work the traffic in the MOA.

File IFR and follow their instructions. If that doesn't work for you,
file VFR and go anyway. Military pilots are well trained that MOA are not
exclusive use airspace and civilian traffic may transit the airspace at
any time.

Not under IFR.

ATC will likely give them point outs of your location and they will avoid
you even if you're VFR (as long as you're transponder is working).

They're not on ATC frequency.

Which MOA is it?

Falls 1.

Hi Steven, are your answers specific to the Falls 1 MOA, or true for MOAs in
general? I thought ATC sometimes worked the military traffic inside the MOA. Is
that never true? Thanks.

Dave

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1120654012.820341@sj-nntpcache-5...

Hi Steven, are your answers specific to the Falls 1 MOA, or true for MOAs
in general? I thought ATC sometimes worked the military traffic inside the
MOA. Is that never true? Thanks.


My answers apply to Falls 1 and the nearby Volk MOAs.

ok, I'll bite.

Does civilian ATC sometimes work a hot MOA? How/why/when ?

On 7/6/2005 7:56 AM, Steven P. McNicoll wrote the following:
"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1120654012.820341@sj-nntpcache-5...

Hi Steven, are your answers specific to the Falls 1 MOA, or true for MOAs
in general? I thought ATC sometimes worked the military traffic inside the
MOA. Is that never true? Thanks.



My answers apply to Falls 1 and the nearby Volk MOAs.

Mitty wrote:

Does civilian ATC sometimes work a hot MOA? How/why/when ?

While flying IFR in the Northeast US, I have overheard Boston Center
controlling the MOAs located in North-Central NY state. Usually it is
along the lines of "you are cleared into Falcon 1" or "block altitude
approved," but it is obvious Center is communicating with them.

One time I even overheard a military pilot receive a terse call from ATC
related to a block altitude to which the pilot was apparently not adhering.


--
Peter
























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"Mitty" wrote in message
...

Does civilian ATC sometimes work a hot MOA? How/why/when ?


I'm not aware of any but there are provisions for it in FAAO 7110.65.

Mitty wrote:
ok, I'll bite.

Does civilian ATC sometimes work a hot MOA? How/why/when ?

On 7/6/2005 7:56 AM, Steven P. McNicoll wrote the following:

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1120654012.820341@sj-nntpcache-5...

Hi Steven, are your answers specific to the Falls 1 MOA, or true for
MOAs in general? I thought ATC sometimes worked the military traffic
inside the MOA. Is that never true? Thanks.



My answers apply to Falls 1 and the nearby Volk MOAs.

I'm obviously no expert, or I wouldn't have asked the question, but...

I seem to remember from a presentation by a military guy at a civilian fly-in at
Pope AFB (pre-9/11, obviously) that MOAs are not a cookie cutter arrangement,
there is a sort of contract between the military and civilian authorites on an
MOA by MOA basis, kind of like the letters of agreement among civilian ATCs.
Sometimes the military ATC will work the civilian traffic and provide separation
in the MOA and sometimes the separation service is delegated to the civilian
ATC, and sometimes no separation is provided. Perhaps someone can confirm or
refute my recollection.

Dave

I would say that is fairly accurate.


"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1120658821.996008@sj-nntpcache-5...
Mitty wrote:
ok, I'll bite.

Does civilian ATC sometimes work a hot MOA? How/why/when ?

On 7/6/2005 7:56 AM, Steven P. McNicoll wrote the following:

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1120654012.820341@sj-nntpcache-5...

Hi Steven, are your answers specific to the Falls 1 MOA, or true for
MOAs in general? I thought ATC sometimes worked the military traffic
inside the MOA. Is that never true? Thanks.



My answers apply to Falls 1 and the nearby Volk MOAs.

I'm obviously no expert, or I wouldn't have asked the question, but...

I seem to remember from a presentation by a military guy at a civilian
fly-in at Pope AFB (pre-9/11, obviously) that MOAs are not a cookie cutter
arrangement, there is a sort of contract between the military and civilian
authorites on an MOA by MOA basis, kind of like the letters of agreement
among civilian ATCs. Sometimes the military ATC will work the civilian
traffic and provide separation in the MOA and sometimes the separation
service is delegated to the civilian ATC, and sometimes no separation is
provided. Perhaps someone can confirm or refute my recollection.

Dave

"Mitty" wrote in message
...
ok, I'll bite.

Does civilian ATC sometimes work a hot MOA? How/why/when ?

The closest thing to "working" a MOA ATC (civil or military - the US NAS is
a single system) does is turn it on or off and watch for spillouts.

This may be done by an air traffic controller if there is no MRU responsible
for the MOA (fairly common around USAF UPT bases).

Who "owns" any particular MOA at any given time and what can or cannot be
done in them depends on the LOA between the facility whose airspace the MOA
is in and the agency responsible for it.

Sometimes, it may be possible to coordinate passage of IFR aircraft through
a "hot" MOA, sometimes the MOA may go cold and sometimes the MOA
*can't/won't* go cold and IFR traffic has to go around. Depends on the
situation, location, and procedures.

In the old days of fighters with one UHF radio, aircraft in a MOA were on
the MRU MOA freq monitoring Guard. These days they've got way too many
radios and can be on multiple freqs simultaneously. Sometimes those
multiple freqs include ATC; sometimes they don't.