MOA??

"Mitty" wrote in message
...
Airport is KBCK, Falls 1 MOA. Central Wisconsin, Green Bay sectional.

Actually, the advice I previously received here (from a couple of
controllers IIRC) was correct: If the MOA is hot, ATC will not let you in
IFR. If you can't cancel and go in VFR, you are SOL. In the KBCK case, I
would consider going in VFR because it is very close to the edge of the
MOA at one point.


I would agree with that to a point. If it's IFR conditions and you're
trying to get in to land, you might have to hold as ATC tries to work you
into the approach. As you hold, ATC will be contacting the military
aircraft in the MOA to try and deconflict to get you IFR seperation. You
will hold outside the MOA until ATC can work that.

To double check, I called Center on the phone. The admin phone for both
Chicago and Minneapolis centers is the same, so I ended up talking to a
controller at Chicago. He said the same thing as above.

Re the rest of your thoughts, that is all new to me. I have flown near a
few hot MOAs while on an IFR clearance and have never heard Center talking
to the military guys. I have also never read any idea that ATC would be
working with the military guys. Is this just your theory?


I am not an ATC controller, but most military talks on UHF on their primary
radio and VHF by exception. Some jets don't even have VHF. The controller
might not be simulcasting his transmissions to the military pilots on VHF,
that's probably why you're not hearing them. But I can promise you, ATC is
working with them.

I have read a couple of articles on MOAs from the military viewpoint and
the gist was that they are really scared of civilian traffic because they
are moving so fast relative to us. In fact, I think in some cases we are
such slow movers that their targeting radar suppresses our returns.


For the most part this is true. Most GA traffic are like very large birds
to military jets. Imagine passing cars on the freeway that are only going
20mph when you're trying to do 70mph. While the military radars are tuned
to detect fast movers at long ranges, they are capable of detecting civilian
traffic, just at much shorter ranges. With that being said, a Cessna flying
at 90kts on a perpendicular flight path might not show until very late on
radar.