Gross Weight

Fred Choate wrote:
...
I chatted with an instructor down at my FBO after my discussion at work, and
his spin was "once you go over the max weight, you are essentially a test
pilot".
I'm met a few USAF test pilots. None of them ever talked about flying
over max weight.

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 08:18:12 -0400, Stubby
wrote:

I'm met a few USAF test pilots. None of them ever talked about flying
over max weight.

During WWII, my impression is that nearly all the escort fighters and
for sure all the bombers were over gross for every mission. All the
weight was where it needed to be, relatively, although gunners had a
habit of loading in extra flack jackets to stand on. The bombs were
right at the C of G and the majority of the fuel tanks were. The P-51
Mustang had a 75 gallon fuselage tank that was aft of the pilot and
made the fighter seriously sensitive when full. Normal procedure was
to select that one immediately after takeoff to burn it off and bring
the C of G into spec.

Takeoff in the bombers was always harrowing and most of the time
nearly the entire runway was used with the bombers laboring airward
for several hours to get to mission height and form up.

Yes, there were LOTS of accidents. I've read that most casualties and
fatalities occured from training and operational accidents, rather
than from enemy activity. That would likely have been more so for the
fighters than for the bombers, because the fighters could and did
normally avoid flack when on escort. But the bombers had to plow
right on through it. Imagine looking ahead over the target and seeing
a black cloud dead ahead, filled with flashes of exploding shells, and
you have to fly directly into it. Every human instinct would be to
turn away.

On the other hand, later in the war the fighters were often released
from escort duty after bringing the bombers safely to the target,
whereupon they were ordered to strafe targets of opportunity. That
brought them down into the sights of the light AA and the Germans were
very very good at putting up curtains of cannon fire around valuable
targets like airfields.

Some of best known pilots were shot down by flack, rather than by
other airplanes. Francis Gabreski, for one. Robert Stanford Tuck for
another.

Corky Scott

"Corky Scott" wrote

During WWII, my impression is that nearly all the escort fighters and
for sure all the bombers were over gross for every mission.

The Hiroshima bomber took off 8 tons overweight. Wow.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"Corky Scott" wrote


During WWII, my impression is that nearly all the escort fighters and
for sure all the bombers were over gross for every mission.


The Hiroshima bomber took off 8 tons overweight. Wow.
OK but that was a very special mission, not the typical test pilot task.

Test pilots are not supposed to see how much over gross they can fly.
They do things like fly in a 60-deg bank at 420 kts with a power setting
of X to see what altitude change results.

"Corky Scott" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 08:18:12 -0400, Stubby
wrote:

I'm met a few USAF test pilots. None of them ever talked about flying
over max weight.

During WWII, my impression is that nearly all the escort fighters and
for sure all the bombers were over gross for every mission.

Were the test pilots flying those missions? If not, I fail to see the
relevance to the post you quoted.

In any case, if I were loading up an airplane in order to intentionally fly
it somewhere that had a good chance of getting me killed anyway, I probably
wouldn't worry so much about aircraft weight either. That doesn't mean it's
a reasonable philosophy for the rest of us.

Pete

Corky Scott wrote:

During WWII, my impression is that nearly all the escort fighters and
for sure all the bombers were over gross for every mission.

That's true, but the rationale for that was the fact that sending the bombers
out over MGW resulted in fewer missions being required to accomplish the desired
destruction. The increased accident rate from going out heavy was still cheaper
than the casualty rate due to enemy action. In the case of the fighters, going
out with extra gas increased the escort range, which reduced casualties more
than the increased losses due to accidents.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.