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#2
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G Faris, your points are well taken, my compliments... Just a few
comments in no particular order.. As far as those folks living directly off the end of the runway, there is nothing I can do about them or their noise complaints... I have to take off and gain altitude and that requires power, which is noise... I can only hope that AOPA and the FAA can continue to to point out to the judges that they are required to judge the law as written, not make social policy... Regardless of ones political beliefs, the current administration in Washington also echoes that requirement, which I suspect has helped GA in these battles, though I have no way to quantify the effect... I live in a rural township a quarter mile from the road and from the nearest neighbor (by choice and by the expenditure of many hundreds of thousands of dollars)... I do not find the aircraft going overhead (13 miles from a jet port and right under an airway intersection ) to be objectionable, YMMV... The farmer(s) working the adjacent field(s) though, shakes the ground with his/their equipment well past midnight many nights... Recently a group of newer resident, affluent, complainers in the township, literally foaming at the mouth at the board meeting, tried to shout the township board into passing a noise law banning farm operations after sundown... The board supervisor pointed out that such a law would discriminate against farmers as a class of person, which is unconstitutional and would be immediately struck down by the courts... He did offer to make a township noise ordinance banning all noise producing equipment after sundown - farm equipment, plus lawn tractors, bikes, mowers, four wheelers, gun shooting, outdoor stereos, outdoor concerts, etc., which would pass constitutional muster as not being discriminatory - and how soon would they like him to get this written up for a vote? The shouters did not seem to favor that... As far as avoiding flying over groups of people enjoying solitude, I have to know they are there where I am flying, a difficult proposition at best... cheers ... denny |
#3
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Hi Greg,
The 69db as stated in my noise certificate are less than meaningless to me. I do not know if you are familiar with these certificates but they are used to calculate the landings fees in some countries. This and the MTOW determines the basic fee. To keep the noise(and the complaints) down most airfields ask a higher fee when landing after 19:00(2xbasic fee), on saturdays(2x), sundays(3x) and official holidays(3x) during the summer period(apr~okt). So, most people think twice before practising circuits during these times. But you are right that there are different kinds of noise and aircraft sound can be a bit annoying. I've been to a meeting with complainers, some of them are reasonable people who think that together we can come to a sensible solution(my idea too). The most(that I've met) however are fanatics that will not rest before the airfield is closed. Those are the ones that go to court for about anything (even vaguely)related to the field. I had a good laugh though. Some examples from complaints against our field: -Complaints about fast small yellow planes that make this irritating whining sound. Airforce trainers from a nearby base. -The jump plane has a diesel engine now, so it makes more noise. No, it is 4db less than before. Etc etc. Anyway, I think I'm nice to our neighbours. I allways reduce power at reaching 200~300ft AGL(the other end of our 2500ft runway) Climbing at 75% and not overflying populated areas, parks, beaches, etc. when possible. -Kees I've been to meetings with complainers, some are reasonable people but the majority will not rest before the airfield is closed. |
#4
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I realize I am considered an unwelcome "troll" on this board, but thank you
anyway for your excellent post. As someone who lives about 3 miles from a GA facility, I can say that the small single engine GA planes (C-150s, 172s, etc., and certainly the smaller "experimental" types, are not a major nuisance. I specifically avoided purchasing property off the ends of the runways, because I realized the noise would be intrusive. However, even where I am, I find that there are very inconsiderate pilots who fly high performance Mooneys and even Pitts below 1000 feet at high rpm and in clear conditions with no competing traffic. The local airport has "voluntary" noise abatement procedures, which are routinely ignored by certain pilots, and of course the FAA makes, at best, perfunctory efforts to identify offending pilots. After going to several meetings concerning the planned "improvements" (i.e. expansions) of the local airport, I saw quite a large number of people were severely bothered by the unnecessary noise of the irresponsible few pilots. Of course, some of the local pilot community has the "to hell with them" attitude (they were at the meeting), and it became pretty antagonistic. Since the industry won't police its own, the airport manager doesn't care and/or is powerless, and the FAA is indifferent to community noise issues, we so-called anti-GA activists have taken the battle to the politicians, and the airport is definitely paying a price. I have raised the issue of local subsidies that our airport is asking from the city (the huge FAA subsidies are apparently not enough), safety concerns of expanding the airport, water pollution issues (the runway extension would require elimination of wetlands), subsidies, etc. and have gotten many responses from local, state and federal officials. I have had several letters to the editor published. I have started posting on this and other boards. I never wanted this fight, but when I am continously and unnecessarily harrased by low flying pilots in high performance planes, or twin engine planes in a hurry to get somewhere and/or save fuel by avoiding the noise abatement suggested routes, I will fight back using every legal means at my disposal. I really don't care all that much about the safety and pollution issues. I care somewhat more about the taxpayer subsidies. But the unnecessary noise by an irresponsible few has energized me to research and monitor my local airport, its finances, etc. For those who dismiss the complainers as cranks, whiners, trolls, or nut cases (or jealous - LOL), you are digging your own graves. There are serious and intelligent people who are fighting your industry, and doing our best to raise the cost of doing business. I believe in live and let live, but some pilots don't, so I have become a vocal and constant critic. And, groups are forming to counter the pilots groups. Its unfortunate, but I won't be driven from my home by private pilots. |
#5
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![]() Skylune wrote: The local airport has "voluntary" noise abatement procedures, which are routinely ignored by certain pilots, and of course the FAA makes, at best, perfunctory efforts to identify offending pilots. Noise abatement programs are not the jurisdiction of the FAA. The FAA does not design or enforce noise abatement programs. Those programs are local. |
#6
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True, although there is a noise complaint site for New England on the FAA
website, which I and others have determined is purely for show value. Furthermore, the FAA funds the ridiculous Part 150 studies noise compatibility studies, which (as you note) they are not responsible for enforcing. In our case, NO ONE is responsible for monitoring or enforcing the voluntary noise abatement procedures -- the airport manager is either powerless or does not care. Therefore (and unfortunately), litigation and political pressure are our only recourse to protect our community. So that's what it has come to in my area. (Expect more litigation too....) As I said previously, I will not be driven from my home so that a few cowboys can have a good time. We did not ask for this fight -- it was forced upon us. And now, we will use every opportunity and newsbite (user fees, requested subsidies from the city, water pollution, noise pollution, traffic concerns, safety issues, etc.) to fight back and raise the pilots' cost of doing business. Trust me, the local airport can already forget about the funds they've requested from the city for improvements. |
#7
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In article
outaviation.com, "Skylune" wrote: True, although there is a noise complaint site for New England on the FAA website, which I and others have determined is purely for show value. Furthermore, the FAA funds the ridiculous Part 150 studies noise compatibility studies, which (as you note) they are not responsible for enforcing. In our case, NO ONE is responsible for monitoring or enforcing the voluntary noise abatement procedures -- the airport manager is either powerless or does not care. Therefore (and unfortunately), litigation and political pressure are our only recourse to protect our community. So that's what it has come to in my area. (Expect more litigation too....) As I said previously, I will not be driven from my home so that a few cowboys can have a good time. We did not ask for this fight -- it was forced upon us. And now, we will use every opportunity and newsbite (user fees, requested subsidies from the city, water pollution, noise pollution, traffic concerns, safety issues, etc.) to fight back and raise the pilots' cost of doing business. Trust me, the local airport can already forget about the funds they've requested from the city for improvements. Have you ever attempted reasonable discourse on the subject? IIRC, you came to this newsgroup like the proverbial turd in the punchbowl, looking to chastise everybody who flies. Nobody is driving you from your home, but YOU are ready to drive us from ours! Most of us in this NG are not afraid to post our real names, rather than using some fake handle, such as yourself. IMHO, you have little more standing than the London terrorist bombers. -- Remove _'s from email address to talk to me. |
#8
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![]() "Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message news ![]() In article outaviation.com, "Skylune" wrote: Orval, Don't feed the troll!! |
#9
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1. Using my actual name would obviously result in increased harassment.
This has been demonstrated by others who attempted to be "reasonable." 2. If you took the time to try to understand our point of view, you would realize we spent ALOT of time trying to have a dialogue with the airport manager, FAA, attended meetings with the airport board, etc..... This is how I have come to understand the FAA Part 150 studies, aspects of the FARs, etc. Plus, I flew a bit in a C-150 trainer years back before deciding I didn't have sufficient time to devote to becoming proficient enough to fly myself (and others) safely. 3. You, sir, are being presumptous when you say I am not being forced out of my home. The racket on the weekends, especially, often starting at 5:15am!!!, has become worse and worse. When I see that damned idiot in the Mooney fly by low and fast(or his buddy in the Bonanza) with the ear piercing racket, it DOES drive us indoors. 4. These people are the turds in my punch. Why don't you pilots tell them to cut the S__T??? |
#10
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In article
outaviation.com, "Skylune" wrote: 1. Using my actual name would obviously result in increased harassment. This has been demonstrated by others who attempted to be "reasonable." I doubt that you have *ever* attempted to be reasonable! 2. If you took the time to try to understand our point of view, you would realize we spent ALOT of time trying to have a dialogue with the airport manager, FAA, attended meetings with the airport board, etc..... This is how I have come to understand the FAA Part 150 studies, aspects of the FARs, etc. Plus, I flew a bit in a C-150 trainer years back before deciding I didn't have sufficient time to devote to becoming proficient enough to fly myself (and others) safely. So now you want to deny that opportunity to others, who may have more innate skills/aptitude than you. 3. You, sir, are being presumptous when you say I am not being forced out of my home. The racket on the weekends, especially, often starting at 5:15am!!!, has become worse and worse. When I see that damned idiot in the Mooney fly by low and fast(or his buddy in the Bonanza) with the ear piercing racket, it DOES drive us indoors. How many times does that happen? What are they really doing? 4. These people are the turds in my punch. Why don't you pilots tell them to cut the S__T??? We often do. Why don't you quit being such an ass? -- Remove _'s from email address to talk to me. |
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