first approach in IMC

I used to deliver freight into OAK at 0100 every morning, so I know what you
are talking about with regard to HWD.

I never related MSA to anything other than emergency use. I see far too many
posts in the ngs where the pilot is trying to include the MSA in the
procedure, and it has no place in the procedure. YMMV.

Bob

"G. Sylvester" wrote in message
.. .
Bob Gardner wrote:
Never descend until you feel comfortable about your location. You can
always ask for delay vectors or just plain ask to stay (relatively) high
until you feel comfortable. Just because ATC says "Descend and
maintain...." does not mean that you have to obey without question.

I asked my CFI about descending when cleared for an approach. He said
exactly what you said. Calculate your 500 fpm descent to arrive at
the crossing altitude a few miles before you reach the fix. I did this
on my checkride and got a compliment over it from the DE. He said he's
used to students descending immediately even though they could be far
far away from the fix. I gotta thank my friend Mark who flies for UA
as he gave me a good way of briefing for this using the MSA.

Use this sparingly, however, lest you be vectored 20 miles away while
everyone else shoots the approach.
Bob Gardner

especially considering it was into HWD which is right underneath and
overlapping the approach paths for OAK.

Gerald

Bob Gardner wrote:
I never related MSA to anything other than emergency use. I see far too many
posts in the ngs where the pilot is trying to include the MSA in the
procedure, and it has no place in the procedure. YMMV.

I know what you mean and usually if it is an emergency, looking at the
plate, figuring out where you are and which way you have to go might
be too late.

My friend (and i guess the rest of UA pilots) simply use it to get an
idea of the height of obstacles/terrain for descent planning. If the
MSA is 1000' AGL, you are pretty free
to descend anytime. If it is 6000' AGL, well you know where the
terrain/obstacles are and you should take a closer look at exactly
where they are and probably best to descend much later on in
the approach. I guess the best example is you are getting RV to
a fix. You are off of an established airway and the controller
says "Cleared for the approach...cross XXX at 3000." The MSA gives
you an idea when to get down in a safe manner. Agreed that it is quite
basic without too much use.


Gerald