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#31
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"Roy Smith" wrote in message ... Ignoring for the moment that switching from 7600 to 7700 is the incorrect procedure for comm failure, it sounds like you're advocating deliberately pretending to have comm failure so you can fly the route you want. I assume you understand 14 CFR 91.3: ----- Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command. (a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft. (b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency. (c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under paragraph (b) of this section shall, upon the request of the Administrator, send a written report of that deviation to the Administrator. ----- Let's see how this plays out. After you land, you call up FSS to cancel your IFR flight plan, and the guy asks you what your emergency was. You say, "I didn't like the route they gave me, so I turned off my radios and continued NORDO". I can only imagine how the conversation would go after that, but I'm sure it wouldn't be a very happy experience for you. No doubt. Making that statement is an admission that he violated FAR 91.183. "The pilot in command of each aircraft operated under IFR in controlled airspace shall have a continuous watch maintained on the appropriate frequency....." |
#32
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Roy Smith wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote: OK. I always figured that the route was "pre sold" end to end before being issued. I've gotten partial route clearances before and assumed that was what happened when they couldn't get the entire route approved. I'd have never guessed that getting a full route clearance left open this sort of possibility. That seems bizarre to me. Are you saying you've never gotten a reroute in flight? No, didn't say that at all. I've never been given a NON-route in mid-flight though, which is the topic at hand. Matt |
#33
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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... OK. I always figured that the route was "pre sold" end to end before being issued. I've gotten partial route clearances before and assumed that was what happened when they couldn't get the entire route approved. I'd have never guessed that getting a full route clearance left open this sort of possibility. That seems bizarre to me. "Pre-selling" your clearance end-to-end before issuing it would create a pretty inflexible system, one that could handle only a fraction of the traffic it does now. What if a thunderstorm cell popped up on your route. You'd probably like to deviate around it. So you ask ATC to deviate 20 degrees left of course and the response is, "Unable, that will put you into airspace that has been pre-sold to another IFR flight." I don't think you'd be happy with that response. This really isn't any worse than what happened to the flight in question. Matt |
#34
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"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... No, didn't say that at all. I've never been given a NON-route in mid-flight though, which is the topic at hand. No it isn't. All that happened here is the route that he had been cleared on was not available to him and he had to select an alternative. |
#35
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"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... This really isn't any worse than what happened to the flight in question. It isn't? Being required to fly through a cell is no worse than not being required to fly through one? |
#36
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Oops!
I guess I got my code squawks backwards. Should have typed 7700 for one-minute, then 7600 for the remainder of the flight. |
#37
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"john smith" wrote in message . .. Oops! I guess I got my code squawks backwards. Should have typed 7700 for one-minute, then 7600 for the remainder of the flight. That's still wrong. |
#38
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In article ,
john smith wrote: Oops! I guess I got my code squawks backwards. Should have typed 7700 for one-minute, then 7600 for the remainder of the flight. If you want to squawk "Lost Comm", just set 7600 and leave it there. The "7700 for one minute, then 7600" procedure predates me, but I understand that a long time ago (like 15 or 20 years), that was how it was done. No longer the case. |
#39
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Thanks to all who replied. At Bob Gardner's suggestion, I emailed a gentleman at Potomac who took the time to look into what happened and to let me know the full story. It all makes sense, even if it was puzzling at the time. As an asside, it's great that people in ATC take trouble like this to let us pilots know what's going on under the hood. It's part of what makes the US ATC system such a pleasure. ===BEGIN QUOTED TEXT=== Mike, I think I have an answer for you. I talked to someone who specifically remembers the incident. At the time the Center called, the controller at Potomac was very busy accepting deviations that were landing at Dulles. There was weather that was affecting the main arrival route into Dulles (the one that comes over V143 and then over FDK). Aircraft were deviating in that area. Additionally, another aircraft which was pretty much flying the route that you wanted was deviating about 20 miles south of EMI for weather and could not get back to the north trying to get to HAR. I think he departed JYO. The controller just could not handle your flight at the time. I am glad it worked out for you, getting to THV by way of Scape. Sorry we couldn't have been more accomodating. If you have any other questions in the future, please don't hesitate to ask. Thanks. Scott Proudfoot NATCA Eastern Regional Safety Rep PCT TRACON |
#40
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"Mike Granby" wrote in message calls me and says "Err, 8096J, Potomac Approach is refusing to handle you, say intentions." The response to that is just what you gave in your original description: "Unable Reroute due to weather" The ball is then in their court. You would be quite justified given the weather you described. You already had an IFR clearance... period. Yes, you are required to accept ATC clearance amendments that are reasonable but you are not required to accept such a clearance if it will in your reasonable judgment endanger the safety of your flight. This is a good one to file a NASA ASRS form on to prevent similar situations in the future. -------------------- Richard Kaplan www.flyimc.com |
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