"Refusing to Handle You"

If an old man can make another comment that may not be current in todays
situations. When the original clearance was issued it conformed with
"standardized" departure procedures from the departing airport/terminal
facility. Even though a rereoute either major or minor will be required in
the future the clearance is issued. The first time the controller would be
aware of it would be in the center sector/terminal facility immediately
prior to the required change. This may or may not be compatible with
traffic flows in effect. ie departure procedures, arrivals procedures, etc.
Maybe on of the current controllers could be so kind to explain the
tailoring symbols on a flight progress strip. If they still use them.

I find it exceptionally hard to beleive any controller would use the phrase
"refused". I can beleive they told you you would have to be rerouted.

Nuff for now thanks for letting me vent.
Al

"Scott Moore" wrote in message
...
Jose wrote:
I'm not sure where this is going, but how about:

"What clearance can you give me which will get me around to the east
of Potomac's airspace?"


Good enough.


...Or maybe he'll say, "Unfortunately, I can't get you anywhere near
there. The best I can do in that direction is blah, blah. Can you do
that?"


Well, he's at this point offering something. He could have been
offering something from the start, since he knows where I am and where
I'm heading. A more helpful original call would have been: "Potomac
can't take you right now. I can take you around twenty miles to the
East if you like, or to the northwest direct XXX. Which would you
prefer?"


You seem to be expecting that he's going to say, "Bzzzt, wrong answer,
try again". It doesn't work like that.


No, it doesn't usually work like that. However, "you can't do that,
what are you going to do about it?" sure makes it seem like the
controller is playing that game.


"Say intentions" should
not be something pilots fear hearing.


It's not. But "we've revoked your clearance. Say intentions." is.

Jose

Exactly. They tear up my clearance constantly and issue new ones.
The best I can think of is that since the entire plan basically got
canceled, they were letting the OP rethink it all.

"Jose" wrote in message
.. .

"Unable Salsbury. I already told you Potomac is refusing to accept you."

(I'm making up the fact that Salsbury is served by Potomac approach - you
as a pilot have no good way to know what is and what isn't. In fact,
Salsbury may only be served by Potomac from 3000 to 7000, but you are at
5000 and the controller is being as helpful and forthcoming now as he was
originally).

Now what?


Let me add a touch of realism. Instead of, "Unable 13,000. Tell you what,
can you give me direct Salisbury VOR for now, and let me go off frequency
for a while to talk to Flight Service?" You say, "Unable 13,000. Tell you
what, can you give me a hold somewhere and let me go off frequency for a
while to talk to Flight Service?" The controller responds with a hold clear
of approach and the weather so you can chat with FSS. Controllers are eager
to help, but you have to tell them what you want. They can't read your
mind.

"Jose" wrote in message
.. .
"Unable 13,000. Tell you what, can you give me direct Salisbury VOR for
now, and let me go off frequency for a while to talk to Flight Service?"

"Unable Salsbury. I already told you Potomac is refusing to accept you."

(I'm making up the fact that Salsbury is served by Potomac approach - you
as a pilot have no good way to know what is and what isn't. In fact,
Salsbury may only be served by Potomac from 3000 to 7000, but you are at
5000 and the controller is being as helpful and forthcoming now as he was
originally).

Now what?

Jose

How about "Request routing around Potomac approach"?

Chip, ZTL

How about "Request routing around Potomac approach"?

Sure, as long as that doesn't take me on a three hundred mile tour of
the midwest.

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
...
How about "Request routing around Potomac approach"?

Sure, as long as that doesn't take me on a three hundred mile tour of the
midwest.

Jose
--

Hey, I thought *I* got to be the pilot here!?! :-)

Chip, ZTL

"Jose" wrote in message
...

Sure, as long as that doesn't take me on a three hundred mile tour of the
midwest.


Potomac is in the east.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

I need to fly around or over Potomac's airspace. So, I might start by
asking some questions:

"If I climbed up to 9000, would that help?"

Center comes back with, "Sorry, you'd need to get up to 13,000 to stay in
Center airspace on that route, can you make that?" (I'm making that up,
but
it sounds plausable).


As I recall from a conversation with a Washington ARTCC controller some
years ago, the forerunner of Potomac approach went up to either FL180 or
FL240.