Another reason to fly GA...

Wow that's sad!,
I don't understand why the cops have such poor shots. At 500 meters I am
bullseye 10 out 0f 10 , with a scope that range would get wayyyy on out
there. Really makes the officers look like Keystone Cops when the only
inflicted wound in a 50 round fired shoot out is a bruise from an ejected
9mm empty brass!
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

"Skywise" wrote in message "Skywise"
wrote in message

I don't know how it is in other countries, or even in other parts of
the US, but law enforcement in the Los Angeles area seems to be trained
to shoot to kill. it seems that if they pull the trigger they
completely unload their weapons then reload before reassessing the
situation.

If this is not actual policy or training, it is de facto policy in
that it is how they respond. There have been two police shootings in
recent months where multiple officers unloaded into the suspect. In
one case something like 120 rounds were fired, only a handful of which
hit the suspect, and at least one round hit another officer.


Police officers are taught to shoot at the center of mass. This is to A.
give them a better chance of actually hitting what they shoot at and B.
To stop the target from doing what ever it is he is doing.

The old cowboy crap of shooting the gun out of the bad guy's hand
doesn't work because as you point they do seem to miss alot.

Well, I tend to agree that in a fluid situation that's rapidly
degenerating there may not be much you can do.

However, I recall seeing on one of them TV cop shows once where there was
a standoff situation with a man holding a gun on a hostage and a police
sniper shot the gun out of the suspects hand. Damned impressive.

No 'hollyweird' special effects.




Assuming that you mean TV cop REALITY show please keep in mind that
sniper is a VERY small subset of police shooting skill and he was
probably shooting for the guys head anyway and missed.

We had a police officer here shoot the gun of a crazy that had a revolver
cocked and aimed at his own head. But he spent several seconds aiming and
he got lucky. Later the gun was examinied and the crazy did pul the
trigger after it was hit. The only reason it didn't fire was the hammer
was jamed due to the damage done by the police officer's shot. THe really
bad part of this was that the crazy and his family sued the officer and
the city. The case was setteled out of court.

Just to keep this thread somewhat on topic years ago we had a problem of
many deers on the runway at the airport. The PD's Emergency Reaction Team
(AKA SWAT) decided to use it as a training excersise. 5 "snipers" along
with their spoters surrounded the suspect deers and when through the
entire process of setting up their shots just as they might in a multi
badguy hostage situation. When the commander gave the go code there was
much sound and smoke and I will let you guess how many dead deer.

If you can't guess scroll down.

ZERO

That's pretty funny if it really is true. Our average hunter here in PA
is much better than that.

Matt

W P Dixon wrote:

Wow that's sad!,
I don't understand why the cops have such poor shots. At 500 meters I
am bullseye 10 out 0f 10 , with a scope that range would get wayyyy on
out there. Really makes the officers look like Keystone Cops when the
only inflicted wound in a 50 round fired shoot out is a bruise from an
ejected 9mm empty brass!

You are obviously using much larger targets than the rest of us.


Matt

W P Dixon wrote:

Wow that's sad!,
I don't understand why the cops have such poor shots. At 500 meters I
am bullseye 10 out 0f 10 , with a scope that range would get wayyyy on
out there. Really makes the officers look like Keystone Cops when the
only inflicted wound in a 50 round fired shoot out is a bruise from an
ejected 9mm empty brass!


Ever been in a firefight where the 'target' is shooting back at you? Makes a
difference :-)

As an old Marine you could say I have been in a 'few" firefights..and my
target was the basic human "shadow" and all hits are in the center chest .
Also Marine rifle coach with 4 awards expert rifleman. And I still do not
see how a 'trained' professional marksman can miss so much. An M-16/AR-15 is
a very accurate weapon in the right hands.

Patrick

"John E. Carty" wrote in message
...

W P Dixon wrote:

Wow that's sad!,
I don't understand why the cops have such poor shots. At 500 meters I
am bullseye 10 out 0f 10 , with a scope that range would get wayyyy on
out there. Really makes the officers look like Keystone Cops when the
only inflicted wound in a 50 round fired shoot out is a bruise from an
ejected 9mm empty brass!


Ever been in a firefight where the 'target' is shooting back at you? Makes
a difference :-)

I'm also a former combat Marine and could always hit 10 for 10 from the 500
yard line (it was never measured in meters for us) with an M-16 with open
sights. However, firing a rifle from the prone position and firing a handgun
while on the move are two entirely different things :-)


"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
As an old Marine you could say I have been in a 'few" firefights..and my
target was the basic human "shadow" and all hits are in the center chest .
Also Marine rifle coach with 4 awards expert rifleman. And I still do not
see how a 'trained' professional marksman can miss so much. An M-16/AR-15
is a very accurate weapon in the right hands.

Patrick

"John E. Carty" wrote in message
...

W P Dixon wrote:

Wow that's sad!,
I don't understand why the cops have such poor shots. At 500 meters
I am bullseye 10 out 0f 10 , with a scope that range would get wayyyy
on out there. Really makes the officers look like Keystone Cops when
the only inflicted wound in a 50 round fired shoot out is a bruise from
an ejected 9mm empty brass!


Ever been in a firefight where the 'target' is shooting back at you?
Makes a difference :-)

but John,
50 or so shots and not hit anything? Now firing the old .45 out the huey
door while flying, doubt I could hit anything ..but you'd have to be running
away firing over your shoulder not to hit anything that close. My grandma
could get a better grouping than that! heck alot of these "shoot outs" are
within 15 feet. Maybe it's all the donut glaze stuck on their trigger
fingers?

Semper Fi,
Patrick

"John E. Carty" wrote in message
...
I'm also a former combat Marine and could always hit 10 for 10 from the
500 yard line (it was never measured in meters for us) with an M-16 with
open sights. However, firing a rifle from the prone position and firing a
handgun while on the move are two entirely different things :-)


"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
As an old Marine you could say I have been in a 'few" firefights..and my
target was the basic human "shadow" and all hits are in the center chest
. Also Marine rifle coach with 4 awards expert rifleman. And I still do
not see how a 'trained' professional marksman can miss so much. An
M-16/AR-15 is a very accurate weapon in the right hands.

Patrick

"John E. Carty" wrote in message
...

W P Dixon wrote:

Wow that's sad!,
I don't understand why the cops have such poor shots. At 500 meters
I am bullseye 10 out 0f 10 , with a scope that range would get wayyyy
on out there. Really makes the officers look like Keystone Cops when
the only inflicted wound in a 50 round fired shoot out is a bruise
from an ejected 9mm empty brass!


Ever been in a firefight where the 'target' is shooting back at you?
Makes a difference :-)

Patrick,
Hey, that old .45 certainly had better stopping power then a 9mm, but we
only had 7 rounds in which to hit the target! :-)
Semper Fi,
John

{Formerly}
Headquarters Company
2nd Force Service Support Group
Fleet Marine Force Atlantic
Camp Lejeune, NC

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
but John,
50 or so shots and not hit anything? Now firing the old .45 out the huey
door while flying, doubt I could hit anything ..but you'd have to be
running away firing over your shoulder not to hit anything that close.
My grandma could get a better grouping than that! heck alot of these
"shoot outs" are within 15 feet. Maybe it's all the donut glaze stuck on
their trigger fingers?

Semper Fi,
Patrick

"John E. Carty" wrote in message
...
I'm also a former combat Marine and could always hit 10 for 10 from the
500 yard line (it was never measured in meters for us) with an M-16 with
open sights. However, firing a rifle from the prone position and firing a
handgun while on the move are two entirely different things :-)


"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
As an old Marine you could say I have been in a 'few" firefights..and my
target was the basic human "shadow" and all hits are in the center chest
. Also Marine rifle coach with 4 awards expert rifleman. And I still do
not see how a 'trained' professional marksman can miss so much. An
M-16/AR-15 is a very accurate weapon in the right hands.

Patrick

"John E. Carty" wrote in message
...

W P Dixon wrote:

Wow that's sad!,
I don't understand why the cops have such poor shots. At 500
meters I am bullseye 10 out 0f 10 , with a scope that range would get
wayyyy on out there. Really makes the officers look like Keystone
Cops when the only inflicted wound in a 50 round fired shoot out is a
bruise from an ejected 9mm empty brass!


Ever been in a firefight where the 'target' is shooting back at you?
Makes a difference :-)

John E. Carty wrote:

I'm also a former combat Marine and could always hit 10 for 10 from the 500
yard line (it was never measured in meters for us) with an M-16 with open
sights. However, firing a rifle from the prone position and firing a handgun
while on the move are two entirely different things :-)

What size is the 10 ring on the targets you were using at 500 yards?

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
John E. Carty wrote:

I'm also a former combat Marine and could always hit 10 for 10 from the
500 yard line (it was never measured in meters for us) with an M-16 with
open sights. However, firing a rifle from the prone position and firing a
handgun while on the move are two entirely different things :-)

What size is the 10 ring on the targets you were using at 500 yards?

Matt

To tell the truth I really don't know. I never worked in the pits pulling
them :-)

Matt Whiting wrote:

You are obviously using much larger targets than the rest of us.

there is also a bit of a difference between shooting in a safe
environment at cardboard targets that don't move and don't
shoot back (I am not half bad at that either) and doing
same in a combat zone environment (about which I don't have
the beginning of a clue, but I'd guess it probably affects
one's marksmanship a bit)

--Sylvain